Photoradar Speeding Tix

[jyl]

Got my first speeding ticket in over 10 years, here in [deleted] Portland. Photoradar, 46 mph crossing the Morrison Bridge. Got me despite no front license plate.

Asking around, seems like everyone I work with has gotten a photoradar ticket recently, and despite being locals they don't know where the photoradar sites are.

Does anyone here know about the photoradar being used in Portland? Where they are located, tell-tales, and most importantly . . . if I got a radar detector, would that alert me to their location?

[pwd72s]

Valentine one...the best self defense device since the single action colt. Welcome to Moscow by the Willamette!

[Noah930]

I think photoradar is still something in evolution in the Portland area. It was pretty rare to see it when I lived there last year. V1 should alert you to it, though. I can't ever recall seeing it, particularly on any of the bridges.

Check to see what the laws are in Beaverton, too. Again, last year there was a big stink about it, as it was just being introduced. They (in Beaverton) take a photo of your license plate. Then they send the ticket to whomever the car is registered. If you weren't driving the car, you're still liable for the ticket--unless you're willing to give them the name of the person using your car at that time.

[jyl]

Portland appears to have a free out. You can deny you were driving and name the person who was. I am not sure if you have to provide their drivers license. Even if not, I'm not willing to lie to save $165. I will just pay this one. I looked up the law, police are required to post photodrama signs and display your speed within 150 feet of the unit. The signs might be overlooked and the speed display might be after you've been tagged. In Berkeley they have these displays but they are just informational.

[Steve Carlton]

Curious how you got a ticket w/o a front plate. Sounds like they must have photographed you from behind. Have you seen the pic?

Dunno about fighting it in Portland. Do they offer traffic school? If you got another ticket, that might start hurting your insurance significantly.

Definately get a radar detector!

[Joeaksa]

They started this in Germany years ago. If you deny that you were driving the car when the photo is taken, then the first ticket is waived. The police then require you to carry a logbook in the car and document EVERY time the car moves, which is not fun at all.

Failure to have this logbook in the car and current if the police stops you results in a very stout fine...

[jyl]

They must have front and rear photos. The ticket has a picture of the driver from the front (non-recognizeable silhouette) and they have my license plate number which is only visible from the rear.

My coworker moved here from Boston, he's one of those aggressive Boston drivers, and has gotten 4 tickets in 18 months. He tells me there is no effective way to fight photoradar tix in Portland. He also says there is no equivalent of California's "going to traffic school". I'll have to look into that. Bummer to have a 10 year clean record befouled.

I just searched for gadgets to foil photo radar. Appears that the reflective clean paint sprays are useless. The license plate covers which prevent viewing the plate except from straight behind do work, but also get you pulled over.

So here's my idea. Mount a photographer's optically triggered slave flash by the license plate. If the photo radar camera uses a flash, it might trigger the slave flash, which might wash out the image of the plate. It might also be noticeable to the person operating the photo radar machine, but they may not be police officers (I think Portland uses a private contractor, which is very common) and may not be inspired/able to pursue (in their photo radar van). Of course, the photo radar system might not use a flash in broad daylight, so this might only work from dusk to dawn.

I recall that optical slave flashes are pretty cheap and can be quite compact.

Come to think of it, I imagine this concept could be applied to make a DIY anti-LIDAR device. In fact, they make commercial products like this. Anyone know what wavelength the police laser speed detectors use? Are they red lasers?

[asphaltgambler]

Since they sent you a photo of your car, just send them a photo of your check for the fine!

[NKN84944]

Up here in Minneapolis we had traffic cameras installed several months ago, but a judge ruled that they could no longer be used about a month ago. I believe the decision was based on the inability to determine who was driving the vehicle. The cameras up here were put at intersections to ticket people who ran red lights, so it is very comparable to the Photoradar that you have in Portland. Hopefully some rich person gets pissed off by it and takes in a good lawyer that gets that **** shut down for you guys too!

[StevoRocket]

WE have over 6500 photo speed cameras in th UK. Unfortunately you are going to have to get used to it.

See here

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/index2.htm

[island911]

Well that sound like a Liberals utopia. Cameras everywhere . . to make sure nothing gets broken. la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la

[fastpat]

Originally posted by jyl
Portland appears to have a free out. You can deny you were driving and name the person who was. I am not sure if you have to provide their drivers license. Even if not, I'm not willing to lie to save $165. I will just pay this one. I looked up the law, police are required to post photodrama signs and display your speed within 150 feet of the unit. The signs might be overlooked and the speed display might be after you've been tagged. In Berkeley they have these displays but they are just informational.

Screw the state, lie and lie right now. You can also get a Valentine 1 as suggested, it's the best made, and try a license plate lense.

Speeding tickets aren't about safety, they're a tax on behavior.

[Noah930]

Since they sent you a photo of your car, just send them a photo of your check for the fine!

Road & Track ran a blurb on that a few years back. Some guy tried that. So the state, in return, sent him a picture of handcuffs. Apparently he wound up paying.

Screw the state, lie and lie right now

IIRC, I think you need to not only provide the guilty party's name, but also enough evidence that they can go track him down.

Up here in Minneapolis we had traffic cameras installed several months ago, but a judge ruled that they could no longer be used about a month ago. I believe the decision was based on the inability to determine who was driving the vehicle.

That's how they also do it in California. This I know, as I grew up there. The camera takes a couple photo's of you: from front and behind. Supposedly also printed on the photo are the time/date and speed. Someone then looks up the license plate number. They then cross-reference that name on the registration with the photo of that same person on the DMV files (remember, that photo is now computerized), and if the photos match, then a ticket gets mailed out. If there's no match, then no ticket gets sent out. So to foil the system (at least in Cali), you can disguise your face with a hat, the sunvisor, cellphone, mask, sandwich, turning away, etc. Or, maybe you can just register your car in your wife's name, and your wife's car in your name...

edit: I'm just a bit irritated having found out that there are municipalities and companies that are developing similar remote-ticketing technology (it's not like there's actually a cop sitting there in the camera trailer, BTW) for drive-by noise standards. So any modified exhaust (or loud music or honking) can soon be ticketed, too. Not sure how accurate those microphones will be, but it's not necessarily a good development in my book. Where the heck are people supposed to find original pipes for old, used vehicles?

[jyl]

I've found this vendor of photo radar jammers that work in the way I described. http://1-radar-laser-jammers-detectors.com/our-store/photo-radar/index.php These will only work if the photo radar equipment uses flash, which apparently is usually, but not always, the case. http://www.sense.bc.ca/equipmnt.htm This sort of thing costs about $350.

There are also commercial laser gun jammers, which do in fact appear to work. "Blinder" is one brand. The bad news is that the latest models of police laser guns report to the officer that he is being jammed, and even the make of the jamming device. Supposedly at least one new model is able to defeat the jamming, though I am not sure how this is done. These jammers are also about $350+. They are not prohibited by Federal law (unlike radar gun jammers), but some states (including CA) prohibit them. http://www.radarbusters.com/support/speedlabs/radar-laser-jamming.asp I'm having a hard time thinking of an effective and attractive place on the 911, near the headlights, to mount the two detector/jammer units.

Hmm, so equipping my car with photo radar jamming, laser gun jamming, plus a Valentine 1 would cost nearly $1000.

[RoninLB]

Plead not guilty. You want to confront your accuser in court.

[StevoRocket]

There is an organisation in the UK campaigning against cameras - this is their site. They have been through all the thinking you are just getting involved in and can therefore save you a lot of effort.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/index1.html

The association of british drivers site could also be interesting.

http://www.abd.org.uk/

This is the site of a company manufacturing cameras and shows some of the advances in design and automation of the processes.

http://www.redspeed-int.com/en/products_redspeed.htm

Modern cameras are digital, connected by computer network to a mainframe, need no film, identify the vehicle from the number plate, create the fine ticket on a mainframe computer and it is sent to you without any police involvement.

A recent development has been SPECS cameras which measure your average speed over a distance (like a mile or two) and send you an automatic fine.

One camera alone in England has collected over a million pounds in fines in a year.