Refurbishing a Classic VW Bug?

[Nathans_Dad]

Since this came up in another thread I have been kicking the idea around. Here is the thought:


Get a VW Bug in decent shape, year/body style is up to you. I would probably go mid 70s for me just for the updated mechanicals.

Anyhow, buy the thing for $3-6k depending on condition. Do a complete overhaul, fix all rust, etc. Basically update it to more modern standards. Here would be the short list:

Rebuild engine or replace with newer engine (is that even possible?)
Complete Bodywork and paint
Update suspension as much as possible for a smoother ride.
New sound deadening, install A/C, power windows, etc.
Redo interior/sound system, etc.

Total budget would be something around $12-15k (about the price you could get a new Civic or similar econobox for).

Is it feasible? Worthwhile?

The goal would be a solid reliable daily driver with good fuel economy and a lot more character than the cars of today.

Thoughts?

[Acox914]

the only ones worth it in the end are ovals and splits.....

[djmcmath]

You know, Rick, last summer, I had about the same thought. Well, similar, anyway. I figured a Bug was really a lot like a 911, and with a little effort, could probably be turned into a pretty capable car. It was kind of a theory I kicked around for a while.

Then I stumbled across a neat little car, very little rust, smooth transmission, elderly owner ... $2250. I had her into the garage on Friday afternoon, fully stripped by Saturday afternoon. The engine was on a truck to the local engine builder, the suspension was all to be replaced with Sway-a-Way and the like. Parts started arriving from Gene Berg, CIP1, and anyone else I could find who'd ship me what I needed. I developed a great relationship with the UPS guy. I also spent about $12K, all told.

Right now, I have a mostly redone '70 VW. People stop me all the time to ask about my "cute" car, little realizing that I can do 0-40 in 12 seconds flat. Ok, so maybe acceleration isn't her strong point, but she handles just like an early 911 -- the same little wobble coming out of turns, the same aft-heavy balance. Corners are fantastic, really.

On the other hand, she's more high maintenance than I would have liked. I'm out there at least once a week, pulling the wheels off, tweaking some carb setting, investigating a grinding noise, or some such nonsense. Right now, she's kind of fun -- she hasn't tried to kill me, or left me dead by the side of the road in a couple of weeks.

If you want more specifics, I have done the theory-to-practice on this one, and I'd be glad to expound on my lessons learned.

Cheers,

Dan

[Jeff Higgins]

For $3-$6K you should be able to find a fully restored Bug. No concourse car, but a solid daily driver. There is even a place here in Lynnwood, Schafner Motors, that sells warrentied Bugs restored to darn near factory new condition. All mechanicals are rebuilt, interior is re-done, all rust removed, and repainted. Their best ones go between $7K and $9K. It is truly almost like buying a brand new Bug.

On the other hand, you can buy great, rust-free "drivers" in this area all day for $2-$4K from private parties. They are kind of like 911's on a lower financial scale; let some one else do the work and spend the money, then swoop in when they get tired of it and pick it up for half to a third of what they have into it.

As far as "updating" one, I have to think that would be pretty tough. It's easy to get a lot more power out of one than stock, and have it remain reliable, but I don't think running anything other than the Bug motor is very feasible. I have seen some with the newer "water boxer" motors in them, so it has been done, but at what cost? I don't think you would stay in your budget if you went that route. Air conditioning and power windows? I think that would be tough, too. The doors are very skinny, so I'm not sure a power window setup would fit inside. I'm not sure an air conditioning compressor could find a place under the engine cover. Maybe.

I have a '70 standard and a '71 Super right now. I drive the '70 daily, and my college age son drives the Super. They are great cars as-is, but that's just my opinion.

[Don Plumley]

It would be fun and a head turner - but no where near as safe as the cars of today. A current Civic has airbags, abs, 5MPH bumpers, et al - all thinks that make a commuter car safe, reliable transportation.

[Moneyguy1]

Dad

All the bugs you could ever want in just about every state of condition/restoration here in Tucson, and most WAY less than the $4k you were thinking.

Take the extra money, go on-line and consider a "warmed up" engine that puts out what the old Porsche Super 90 had. Now you got something!!

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
I would probably go mid 70s for me just for the updated mechanicals.

Feh! It's going to cost about the same to 'refurbish' a '76 as a '67 - why not go with the '67? And personally I'd stay away from super beetles.

Anyhow, buy the thing for $3-6k depending on condition. Do a complete overhaul, fix all rust, etc.

For $3 to $6k, that mid-70's bug better not have much rust! I have a lead on a dry, running '79 vert in need of cosmetics for $1500.

Rebuild engine or replace with newer engine (is that even possible?)

1600 for bread-and-butter reliabilty, type IV for power.

Complete Bodywork and paint

That's the easy part - start with the driest, straightest most complete car you can. No engine? No problem!

Update suspension as much as possible for a smoother ride.

Here's where you're getting off track. Nothing really wrong with a bug suspension for normal driving.

New sound deadening,

Easy.

install A/C, power windows, etc.

Why? Yes, they can be done, but WHY?

Redo interior/sound system, etc.

This is all over-the-counter stuff.

Total budget would be something around $12-15k (about the price you could get a new Civic or similar econobox for).

For that kind of green, either buy a done car, or work up an earlier one, so when you decide to sell, you'll have better ROI.

Is it feasible?

Yes

Worthwhile?

Depends on you.

The goal would be a solid reliable daily driver with good fuel economy and a lot more character than the cars of today.

A bug can be a reliable DD, but you have to realize that the maintenance schedule is still in the 1950's - you will still have to tinker - you will not be creating a Honda with a bug body.

You might also consider a Type 3. A notchback would be a good alternative to a bug, and they're a level up in 'character'

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Acox914
the only ones worth it in the end are ovals and splits.....

And buses.

[nostatic]

and westys

[nostatic]

and for a bug, don't bother with anything "newer" than a '67...that was the end of the line as far as I'm concerned...

[mede8er]

For that initial investment I'd go with a Ghia.......sexier.......

[dd74]

Is it worth it? Oh, yes. But I agree with nostatic about the '67.

[Nathans_Dad]

My thought with the A/C is that I live in Texas and no A/C was the primary reason I got rid of my original 1972 Bug that I drove in college. Now I wish I had that car back.

I really haven't done much pricing on these cars yet, except for browsing through Collector car trader.com. Seems that they are pretty proud of their bugs here in Texas, they were selling from $2k to $14k !!

The wife likes the idea, of course she wants it to be a convertible.

Question is, is a convertible bug a guy's car?? My original car was a coupe which I really liked, but the convertibles are cool too. Just a bit more expensive.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad

Question is, is a convertible bug a guy's car?? My original car was a coupe which I really liked, but the convertibles are cool too. Just a bit more expensive.

I think any well-set-up Bug is a guy's car, convertible notwithstanding.

Now if only the same train of thought went out to Miatas, I'd possibly own one.

[nostatic]

my '67 had factory air. chucked it...just like i did on the 911. If you've got to have AC, I'd look for other alternatives. An old bug just ain't up to the task...

[Nathans_Dad]

I'm really tempted by this idea. A nice little bug project would be a good addition to my garage after I move next summer and it would give me a somewhat cheaper platform to learn on instead of tearing into the Porsche right away.

Plus I've always regretted selling my Bug and it would be nice to get one back in the garage again.

[Moneyguy1]

You could try to locate a 912 that needs a little TLC. Almost a VW!!

[speedracer]

I will second the ghia idea. They are really cool!

[Nathans_Dad]

I love the look of the Ghias, but I'm not so sure I would fit. 6'5" in a Ghia? The bug looks like it would have a bit more headroom, I used to fit ok in my old one. Anyone know whether I would fit in a Ghia?

[speedracer]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
I love the look of the Ghias, but I'm not so sure I would fit. 6'5" in a Ghia? The bug looks like it would have a bit more headroom, I used to fit ok in my old one. Anyone know whether I would fit in a Ghia?

Not sure if you would fit or not.... some ghia porn:

http://www.bader-racing.de/en/home/home_news.htm