Pilots.. TSA + 12 year old kids?

[Jims5543]

We flew to the Bahamas last weekend (actually 5/11/06) and when we approached the security checkpoint we were singled out. The TSA officers were VERY interested in my 12 y/o son. They made him step into a bomb sniffing mackine (actually my whole family) and then they searched his backpack (nothing was searched for the rest of us) and sniffed the entire backpacks contents for a bomb.

None of this upset me at all I am glad they are on top of things.

I am just curious if anyone heard anything about the possiblility of a 12 year old kid being the deliverer of an airborn bomb.

[914GT]

Anything is possible. But I think common sense goes out the window to cater to political correctness. Last year in Anchorage airport I saw an 80+ year old lady in a wheelchair getting a full search including patted down, while a middle-eastern looking couple walked through the security checkpoint without any extra security checks.

[M.D. Holloway]

Jim - did he stand out in any way? Camo, all black, red or blue bandana?

[Don Plumley]

Similar thing happened to us. Last Fall we were at SFO on our way to the BVI via JFK. They took my daughter (12) aside and started to thoroughly search her pink backpack. I started to get quite a chuckle as they sorted through colored pencils, bags of candy, iPod, etc. when they pulled out a full size pair of scissors. Holy Cr@p! As my jaw hangs open, and my daughter mouths to me, "I didn't know I couldn't bring them" the TSA person takes the scissors over to a supervisor, who brings them back to my daughter - and gives them back! Gotta love SFO.

Fast forward 5 hours. We have a couple hour layover so we hang out at the club - which is outside of security at JFK. Knowing my innocent looking little girl is packing heat, we decide that instead of letting them discover them again, we'd come clean up front and disclose to a TSA agent. You'd think we told them we had a device. A quick huddle, lots of conversation, and they take the scissors. I'm guessing JFK is a little more sensitive to this sort of thing than the night shift at SFO. Gotta love the consistency.

Another TSA story - friend of mine is a French Chef. He was in Atlanta rushing to get through security to make his flight. Once they get through, being Delta, it was delayed. As he sat in the boarding lounge, he suddenly realizes that he has his KNIFE ROLL in his carry-on. He meant to check his bag, but through the rush, forgot. How that got through the x-ray is beyond him. So what to do? Stay quiet? Nope, wants to do the up front thing and let someone know. Hails a TSA supervisor, and explains the dilemma. Who do you think is in trouble - the folks that let him through with a full set of knifes or him? Needless to say it was a very uncomfortable hour for him.

The TSA - protecting our skies from 12 year olds with scissors and honest Chefs with a bunch of knifes...

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The TSA is the biggest waste of taxpayer dollars in recent memory. Utterly worthless, incompetent boobs doing nothing to meaningfully enhance security. It's there to present a security blanket "feel good" to the American public only. Trust me as someone that has worked in aviation and flown as a pilot commercially - if someone wants to get a knife/gun/bomb/whatever onto an airplane, they can.

I believe public perception is the sole goal of the TSA. Any meaningful deterrent is just a bonus. The pat-downs of grandmothers, babies, expectant mothers and children are merely so word gets around the watercooler discussions of America that the TSA is not discriminating and being very thorough so those mean and nasty terrorists couldn't thwart us by using grandmothers, babies, expectant mothers or children to do their dirty work. We should therefore all sleep better.

Sadly, most of the idiot populace accepts this.

[Isabo]

It's not just in the states it's worldwide. I have to agree with Jeff on this one. I know a few security professionals and when the topic comes up at the very least they say that what the public sees is just for the feel good factor. I'd add that the airlines and airports have also taken advantage of the terrorist problem to herd passengers even more like cattle - much easier to handle. I now avoid flying whenever I can.

[red-beard]

I was flying out of Karachi Pakistan about 20 years ago. It was about 6 months after Pan Am 103, so security was still quite stepped up.

We approach the security area and a sign says that batteries must be removed from all electronic devices. This is where we get checked for carry on, not checked bags.

So the douche bag in front of me say "Do you want the batteries out of my camera?" Jerk. I had been going through these check points all the time and they never pulled my camera batteries (3 button cells and not cheap!). Jerk. They pulled mine, since they now knew about button cells in camera.

Well, they didn't take the batteries out of my HP-11C, which used the same batteries. And they didn't take my Ni-Cad battery pack out of my Laptop...

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Jim - did he stand out in any way? Camo, all black, red or blue bandana?

No he does not. They pulled another family behind us and they had a 12 year old girl. I heard an agent ask another as we were approaching if they were "still checking 12 years olds." That was his words exactly. I thought it was odd.


Flying back from Nassau was irritating. We had to go through 5 seperate check points. We had to go through metal detectors and x-ray twice. They saw my 4 bottles of booze in my carry on and had to check. They only check 2 of the 4 bottles. I had 2 bottles of 151 taken away 2 years ago I wish I had them this time they would have gotten through.

[Shuie]

Did he have the 'S' on his boarding pass?

[artplumber]

Originally posted by 914GT
Anything is possible. But I think common sense goes out the window to cater to political correctness. Last year in Anchorage airport I saw an 80+ year old lady in a wheelchair getting a full search including patted down, while a middle-eastern looking couple walked through the security checkpoint without any extra security checks.

Or you could be me, not white, followed a white girl through the Sacramento checkpoint who was wearing athletic shoes. I figure I'll go through with my athletic shoes on too. Don't set off the alarm, but get the full pat down search etc.

Hmmm, what are you saying, that middle-eastern looking or non-white people are the only ones who should be searched.

[Shuie]

Wearing your shoes through the metal detector is a guaranteed full search once you get to the other side. It will happen every time.

[artplumber]

Except the girl didn't get searched....Hmmm?

[Joeaksa]

Guys, what happened is that they had an alert that someone was going to be using their kid to smuggle something onboard, so they are checking all the kids. Its been done before.

Other than that the TSA is a worthless group of Govt paid idiots. We call them "Thousands Standing Around" and they really get pissed when they hear it. Its all whitewash to try and make the public get a "warm and fuzzy" feeling.

Watch how the Israeli's do security and you will see experts. They do it the way it should be done and professionally to boot.

Jim,

They pull the 151 rum because it will catch fire. Lower proof will not.

Shuie,

Thats not correct everywhere. I always wear my shoes through the checks with not a problem. Different sites also have the sensitivity on their machines at different levels so its hit and miss.

The sooner we start profiling the better. Its time to stop being PC and realize that this is not a game. That said, the terrorists will probably not use an airliner the next time. They might do one just to show that they can do it but personally my gut tells me that they will take a semi-truck and detonate a dirty bomb just West of DC and NYC. Hope it never happens but who knows...

Joe A

[artplumber]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
...The sooner we start profiling the better. Its time to stop being PC and realize that this is not a game.

Sorry Joe got to disagree with you there. If they search me, they better d@mn well search everyone else. Don't forget the "converted" caucasians who were willing to fight or attempt to bomb came from the US. And money has always been enough to convince people to look the other way - there are plenty of people (who aren't middle-eastern) willing to sell the country.

[Jims5543]

I get mistaken for Pakistani by Pakistani's. I have also been picked out at an Airport due to my looks. I am very ethnic looking.

I have ZERO issues with being singled out. Maybe MY looks are what caused my son to be searched. I have no problem with that at all.

I will have more of a problem with the guy that actually got a bomb on my plane.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
I get mistaken fpr Pakistani by Pakistani's. I have also benn picked out at an Airport due to my looks. I am very ethnic looking.

I have ZERO issues with being singled out. Maybe MY looks is what caused my son to be searched. I have no problem with that at all.

I will have more of a problem with the guy that actually got a bomb on my plane.

Jim,
The point is that if they pick you out because you look "foreign", they'll miss the bomber who looks "american" (white). Frankly, it's this sort of short-sightedness that always gets people in trouble and is easily circumvented by not "fitting" the profile. How easy is it to apply a little makeup?

Furthermore, it does little to engender positive feelings towards the country, when those who are already experiencing prejudice get this as well. Let's say you're going to NY on the train (since searches there just came up), if you're not "american" (white) enough, you know you have to arrive 20 minutes earlier than someone who is white because you know you will be searched and they won't? And that you won't make your train, to get to the meeting, to impress your boss, to make promotion? Please....

Search everybody.

[Joeaksa]

Peter,

I did not say a word about racial profiling. There are several ways to profile and not all have a thing to do with the way a person looks.

I am not so much for profiling by the way a person looks as by their age. How many 80 year old granny's have we seen anywhere in the world active in terrorist activities? None that I have heard about. Same with 80 year old grandfathers. We need to stop hassling somone in a wheel chair and spend a bit more time on the younger people on board who have been proven to cause problems.

Now lets look at 16 to 40 year old males and recently 16 to 40 year old females in the Middle East. About 99% of the bombings have been done by individuals in this age range. Everyone of the 9/11 terrorists fit in this age range. Every bombing that I know of in Israel fit in this age range. Every one of the London and Spain bombers fit this age profile. Are we getting my drift yet? Everyone of the Sydney bombers again fit this profile.

I know your argument will be that when they start profiling these ages that they will start trying to find an old fart to carry a bomb or weapon. This may happen but the numbers that might get through are so small that right now I would not worry about it.

I have been in the aviation field for 35 years and was the head of safety/security for McDonnell Douglas Aircraft in Saudi Arabia while I was posted there. This is not coming from someone who has "read about it on the internet or Time magazine" and has no security training or experience in the field.

Again, lets look at the Israeli's and see how its done professionally. They profile and it works. Oh yea, just because they do profile it does not mean that everyone is not searched, its just that the suspect people are searched in a different manner and perhaps several times.

Joe

[artplumber]

Fair enough Joe, your reply to Shuie just happened to be about an apparent case of racial profiling, and the discussion seemed headed that way (look at Jim's reply) hence my posts.

[cashflyer]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
...The TSA officers were VERY interested in my 12 y/o son...

I've heard that about TSA officers.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Michael Jackson and the Catholic priesthood now work for the TSA?