i don't need to be explained the fire to remember the world wars, WW1 was in my home town , i worked for the museum and everything...
WW2 was less of an issue for us in Flanders, there were not many battles that time, but it get's rememberd just the same when we have armastice day...
i just dislike if that remembrance is corrupted by current day politics...

The enemy of my enemy is my friend thing.......

cute. SmileWavy

I just finished reading this whole thing and wished I'd have waited...

Pat,

Clues are for sale, really cheap. Bush is not The Devil Incarnate. MOST politicians seem to be on a first name basis with The Devil, but Bush is not incarnate. The mongering diatribes you post do little to add constructive criticism. I would hope you'd review your position and state it a bit more eloquently. (And yes, I know that I am not so very eloquent.)

Others,

Pat is too easy a target, but please stop blaming others for our issues. The US is NOT perfect, it never was and it never will be. If you wish to go to a truly free society, please move to Iceland. If you can get a visa.

The US was born with many different ideas. Making statements that one set of ideas that is not your own is inherently wrong is the reason your forefathers started this country in the first place. They were tired of my relatives telling them how to live, practice religion, and how to think.

I served alongside Belgian Forces and I would PROUDLY serve with them again!! Their professional military was outstanding! Belgium fought hard and bravely against many occupying forces for hundreds of years. To suggest that Belgians are not committed to freedom is simply assinine.

Stjin, You don't upset me. But you can't apply logic to emotion. Saying something isn't logical (in which case you'd be right) doesn't make it untrue, or unreal. If you can't feel it no one will be able to explain it to you.

you should get those feelings a bit more under control, it must be hard to have em all the time in this day and age where there are so much things to get emotional over... seriously , if i were to get bad vibes over everything i dislike from certain countries, i'de be seriously depressed and hating a lot of "low lifes" around the world...

No it can't if you weren't actually around during those times. Otherwise it is textbook and spoken-word history, films and other media "telling" one what it was like then. So, with that, you should tread carefully through points about who saved who and who owes who for their freedom.

Consider as well, that any intervention of the U.S. in France dispatched Hitler, but not Fascism entirely, or at least our actions did not encourage pure political freedom. So, honestly, did we truly liberate the French?

David? where did you hang out with the Belgians??

Take yourself back to the start of the thread, theres a sense of injustice and it comes from France. Those feelings get stirred from time to time. We don't forget our history so easy.

Being unbiased is pretty darn hard. We carry different experiences around with us our whole lives. I never thought it would be so hard to explain why some people feel one thing or don't. Don't worry it's not a daily burden, it doesn't define who some of us are but it does taint our perspectives.

I think they should've named a gutter after that guy, and ordered the always-on-strike Parisian sanitation workers to never clean it. Fitting tribute to a cop killer.

Croissants. Mmmmmm. :)

one mayor naming his street in an offensive way is not the fault of all french... frankly if anybody in the US would call his street the Dutroux street, i'm sure hardly anyone in Belgium would care... some things are just not worth it...

Ah more rationality and logic. Stijn, I think some of us are justly upset with this story and for a little relief we poke fun at the French. Yes, it's probably stupid but it's just a little steam relief. I don't think the entire country of France has anything to worry about other than an occasional cold shoulder from some wine buyers and honeymoon travelers.

Sorry, if it sounds like were launching the Nukes in 10 minutes.

EDIT(MMMM Croissants! Oui e crepes MMMM!)

Basically the point of my original post was to bring up the fact that it is bad enough we have our own countrymen(and women) supporting this cop killing scumb*g. Now we have a foreign country honoring him. A country that has a history of thumbing it nose at us and not supporting anything we do. Myself and any self respecting human should be pissed at this.

depite what the author of that article wrote, France did not name that street as a nation, they did not hold a nation wide referendum as to what name that specific street should have...
there was no vote to pick that name in a direct effort to piss off your nation, it wasn't meant as a provocation , just poor judgement and shortsightedness...

the republic of France did not make a national Abu-Jamal day out of it...

it was a subburb of Paris, most likely some comitty of idiots did the name selection during a boring meeting where they had nothing better to do then picking names for streets...


if anything , the average frenchy on the street, doesn't give a rats arse about this Abu-Jamal dude, most likely they don't even know who he is...

you can be pissed at it , but at least be pissed at the right thing , the idiots that picked the name... not the nation , not all french...

as for not supporting what you do , hell , i have friends doing stuff i don't support, so what, they don't always support the stuff i do , big deal, we're not married are we.. neither is France and hte US, there is no agreement where France pledged allegiance to the Stars and Stripes, France is not a member of the United States

Ah the thumbing and taunting.

GALAHAD
Is there someone else up there we could talk to?

MAN
No. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

MAN
+ Fetchez la vache!
+
+ GUARD
+ Quoi?
+
+ MAN
+ Fetchez la vache!

Fetchez la vache??

Fetchez is not a real french verb if you ask me

something something the cow ??

right , monty python, should have known...

I suggest some of you check your history books. The role of the french in the american Revolution has been greatly exagerated in this thread.

The tide had turned in the favor of the Americans long before a substantial french force had reached Rhode Island in 1780.
The french fleet trapped the British fleet in Chesapeake bay, but that wasn't until near the end of 1781. The french conveniently jumped into the frey when the war was almost over. Thier timing was consistant with their past (and future) military history. They were not there when the americans needed them the most but they were there to share in the glory.
I will concede that the end of the American revolution was hastened by the eventual arrival of the french, but the outcome would have been the same with or without them.

As far as vietnam goes, I wasn't there in the early 60's but based on what I have read the french pleaded for help constantly and didn't say "we're out of here" until the US was duped into taking their place.

Someone suggested that them rest of the world is tired of the US being a bully?
We bullied the German's into defeat in WW1. We bullied the axis powers into defeat in WWII. We billied the USSR into leaving all of europe alone during the cold war.
We bullied the north Koreans into a ceasefire, we bullied Iraq into giving back Kuwait.

Seems like no one likes the US unless we are being a bully against their
enemies, then it's perfectly OK.

Like I said, we should just sit the next one out and let the cries for help from the rest of the world fall on deaf ears.

historians would argue that the first WW1 was about to end due to exhaustion of both sides , but mostly the Axis
and that the US involvement , actually prolonged the war, due to more strict demands for surrender

strict and unbearable surrender terms , that Hitler actually used to gain power in Germany, and ultimately caused WW2...

your use of the term "we" is also a bit overrated...
if by we you mean all Allies during WW1 i'de say yeah
same for WW2

same for Korea
and Gulf1

Now I can see the source of all this anger. I'd be pretty enbarrassed and angry too, if I had ever voiced any support for the kook in the White House.

Blowing off steam has nothing to do with who is in the White House, read the article at the beginning.


French and Early America [edit 1754 -1763]

If you want to go back to the American colonies, just remember Washington fought off the invading French, before our claim of independence from England. Different language, dangerous religion, the Franco American alliance was not easy.

Anyone hear of Cinco De Mayo? [edit 1862]

Under Emperor Napoleon III, who detested the United States, the French came to stay. They brought a Hapsburg prince with them to rule the new Mexican empire. His name was Maximilian; his wife, Carolota. Napoleon's French Army had not been defeated in 50 years, and it invaded Mexico with the finest modern equipment and with a newly reconstituted Foreign Legion. The French were not afraid of anyone, especially since the United States was embroiled in its own Civil War.

When the battle was over, many French were killed or wounded and their cavalry was being chased by Diaz' superb horsemen miles away. The Mexicans had won a great victory that kept Napoleon III from supplying the confederate rebels for another year, allowing the United States to build the greatest army the world had ever seen. This grand army smashed the Confederates at Gettysburg just 14 months after the battle of Puebla, essentially ending the Civil War.

Union forces were then rushed to the Texas/Mexican border under General Phil Sheridan, who made sure that the Mexicans got all the weapons and ammunition they needed to expel the French. American soldiers were discharged with their uniforms and rifles if they promised to join the Mexican Army to fight the French. The American Legion of Honor marched in the Victory Parade in Mexico, City.