Murtha accuses Marines of war crimes

[fastpat]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Nuh uh, not a legal matter to infinity

The US Constitution has protections written for enemy combatants??? Taken and kept on foreign soil no less? I seriously don't recall any such protections.

There is no time and place wherein the Constitution does not limit the US government. Find within it's words a single mention that the Constitution does not restrict the US government beyond national boundaries, or that in dealing with foreign nationals it is null and void.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by fastpat
There is no time and place wherein the Constitution does not limit the US government. Find within it's words a single mention that the Constitution does not restrict the US government beyond national boundaries, or that in dealing with foreign nationals it is null and void.

So when our guys raid a known weapons depot in ....lets say Mosul, they must first obtain and present a warrant?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by lendaddy
So when our guys raid a known weapons depot in ....lets say Mosul, they must first obtain and present a warrant?

Since the US government is in Iraq illegally, that should be treated as a home invasion by the Iraqi's, looking closely at this debacle, I'd say that just what they're doing.

They need to find a better way to attack the green zone, there should be no sanctuary for war criminals.

To answer your question specifically, yes, that's exactly what they must do to comply with the law.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by fastpat
Since the US government is in Iraq illegally, that should be treated as a home invasion by the Iraqi's, looking closely at this debacle, I'd say that just what they're doing.

They need to find a better way to attack the green zone, there should be no sanctuary for war criminals.

To answer your question specifically, yes, that's exactly what they must do to comply with the law.

I thought you would bring up the "illegal war trumps all" argument.

So lets try a different angle.

Lets pretend that this was a "legal war" by whatever you define that as, would they stiil need a warrant?

[lendaddy]

Pat?

[stuartj]

Originally posted by 914GT
No. But show me where in the Constitution these throatslitters and an enemy who loves to blow up our soldiers with IEDs deserve a fair trial during an ongoing war. Why are you libs so much in love with these monsters.

The American Marines who, allegedly, shot and killed small children dressed in their pyjamas, in their homes, will get a fair trial.

Why are you in love these -alleged- monsters?

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by DaveE
You Mul are a liar and distorter. That story by the Moonie paper is dated May 18, not Memorial Day weekend. Go spread your lies elsewhere. If you would ever take the time to listen to Murtha you would hear him blame the Bush regime for keeping our brave men in a position of peril that they end up taking such action as this. Go spead your filth and slander elsewhere.

How does your foot taste?

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by 914GT
You're right, he's a liar. What Murtha really said this weekend is that our military covers up the 'killings'.

Murtha is a two-faced POS...He says this..."This is the kind of war you have to win the hearts and minds of the people," he said. "And we're set back every time something like this happens. This is worse than Abu Ghraib."...and out of the other side of his mouth he denigrates our military and demoralizes our troops with his lies. Murtha is a big part of the leftist propaganda machine that fuels world hate of America.

[Mulhollanddose]

"I will not excuse murder, and this is what happened," Murtha said. "This investigation should have been over two or three weeks afterward and it should have been made public and people should have been held responsible for it."

The Marines are guilty until proven innocent?...This is how Murtha treats his fellow Marines?...Get the rope, Murtha's crimes far surpass any allegations of his betrayed brothers...If the Marines mistreated anyone, you betcha they were asking for it.

[stuartj]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
"I will not excuse murder, and this is what happened," Murtha said. "This investigation should have been over two or three weeks afterward and it should have been made public and people should have been held responsible for it."

The Marines are guilty until proven innocent?...This is how Murtha treats his fellow Marines?...Get the rope, Murtha's crimes far surpass any allegations of his betrayed brothers...If the Marines mistreated anyone, you betcha they were asking for it.

Why has it taken over 6 months to get an investigation?

Why has it -again- taken external pressure to get the US military to act?

Why is the first reaction of the US military to cover up?

What, hypothetically ofcourse Mul, do children aged 11, 3 and 1 have to do to a company of Marines to warrant getting shot in their homes? You betcha they were asking for it.

[914GT]

Originally posted by stuartj
The American Marines who, allegedly, shot and killed small children dressed in their pyjamas, in their homes, will get a fair trial.

Why are you in love these -alleged- monsters?

Akbar,

First of all, it's 'allegedly' and our guys are innocent unless proven guilty by trial. Until then you're getting your information from sources - the media and the origin possibly Muslim extremists - who have a well known track record of lying and using these kinds of situations to trash our troops. It's happened before. Meanwhile, until there's an investigation or trial, Murtha should keep his damn stinking mouth shut. If the facts come out that some of our guys did kill children in cold blooded murders then I'd agree they are monsters. But you are very naive to believe what you've read or seen on the news and taking it for the truth.

[Mulhollanddose]

MATTHEWS: Draw us a picture of what happened in Haditha.

MURTHA: Well I'll tell you exactly what happened. One Marine was killed and the Marines just said we're gonna take care...we don't know who the enemy is, the pressure was too much on them, so they went into houses and actually killed civilians and...I...

MATTHEWS: Was this My Lai? When you say cold blood Congressman, a lot of people think you're basically saying you've got some civilians sitting in a room or out in a field and they're executed on purpose...

MURTHA: That's exactly what happened.

[stuartj]

Originally posted by 914GT
Akbar,

First of all, it's 'allegedly' and our guys are innocent unless proven guilty by trial. Until then you're getting your information from sources - the media and the origin possibly Muslim extremists - who have a well known track record of lying and using these kinds of situations to trash our troops. It's happened before. Meanwhile, until there's an investigation or trial, Murtha should keep his damn stinking mouth shut. If the facts come out that some of our guys did kill children in cold blooded murders then I'd agree they are monsters. But you are very naive to believe what you've read or seen on the news and taking it for the truth.

But the Guantanamo inmates are not due the same the process.

I am getting my information from members of your Congress and comments coming form the US military.

Do you see ANY irony in accusing the other side of lying for propaganda purposes when you absolutely believe anything the US military dishes out? Did you learn nothing from the Abu Graihb matter? Or the '04 (IIRC) incident at the Bedouin Wedding? (nbut that didnt happen, did it.)

If we waited for the US military to investigate, it would simply never happen.

I am not taking anything for the truth. You will note my deliberate use of the term "alleged."

[stuartj]

Mul, IYO, opinion, if this incident is as reported, how should it be dealt with?

[Mulhollanddose]

Drop a nuke on em and save them the life of hell. Back to Allah they can go. Paradise has gots to beat Iraq.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by stuartj
Mul, IYO, opinion, if this incident is as reported, how should it be dealt with?

Oh, you are talking about the Marines. I thought you were talking about the Islamofascist scum. The Marines should get a fair trial. They should not be tried and convicted in the media, as Murtha seems to prefer. Murtha and his media friends should wait until at least 1 day past Memorial day to make their case of military wide abuses of power (as false the charge is).

[stuartj]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Oh, you are talking about the Marines. I thought you were talking about the Islamofascist scum. The Marines should get a fair trial. They should not be tried and convicted in the media, as Murtha seems to prefer. Murtha and his media friends should wait until at least 1 day past Memorial day to make their case of military wide abuses of power (as false the charge is).

And IYO, why can we confidently rely on the US military to investigate and prosecute this case? TO date, as with other cases, they have been hell bent on covering it up- it would appear.

Do you think the US military handles matters like this well, given that justice must also be seen to be done?

If Murtha hadnt been so vocal about this issue, what do you think would have happened?

Do you think the military should be left to investigate and prosecute, given its demosntrated interests in either making these things go away or manipulating them for its own ends? (Tillman, Abu Graihb, Bagram, Bedouin Wedding)

[dd74]

The line from A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth," come to mind? Maybe it's because there are hidden truths here.

Okay, if those Marines did commit these heinous crimes, that's one thing. Shame, shame on them.

But if I was an enterprising military lawyer, told to defend these Marines, just think of all I might say in their defense:

1) We have stressed out soldiers from:
2) A war that can't be won.
3) A war with no evident end game.
4) A war which is understaffed with soldiers.
5) A war predicated on personal agendas (GW's)
6) A war in which objects needed for survival - from body armor to adequate intelligence - is lacking.
7) A war in which the efforts of the U.S. military is not widely accepted or appreciated.

So some Marines kill three kids, huh? Well, excuses are cheap, but sometimes add up to deeper truths as well.

[CamB]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Oh, you are talking about the Marines. I thought you were talking about the Islamofascist scum. The Marines should get a fair trial. They should not be tried and convicted in the media, as Murtha seems to prefer.

Why not? I mean, really, why not? Everything else gets tried in the media? I don't remember you being so pure when liberals/Democrats were being tried in the media?

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by dd74
But if I was an enterprising military lawyer, told to defend these Marines, just think of all I might say in their defense:

1) We have stressed out soldiers from:
2) A war that can't be won.
3) A war with no evident end game.
4) A war which is understaffed with soldiers.
5) A war predicated on personal agendas (GW's)
6) A war in which objects needed for survival - from body armor to adequate intelligence - is lacking.
7) A war in which the efforts of the U.S. military is not widely accepted or appreciated.

Boy, you have the Democrat talking points down like a good little parrot...All the above are lies or misrepresentations...The spreading of which produces a U.S. military that is not widely accepted or appreciated...Murtha's traitorous presumption of guilt illustrates this contention.

The very thing, dd74, that fuels the Islamofascist fire is the liberal/media drumbeat of negativism. This negativism gets broadcast to the Islamofascist, the liberal media intentionally runs PR (as they have a mutual enemy, GW Bush), and the enemy scum get encouragement as the media manufacturers polls intended to undermine Bush...they in turn feel their slaughter is working and turn up the killing.

It is the fault of the American Democrats, and leftist media, that so many women, children and military men and women are being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan...They (Democrats and media) fuel the fascist fire as they fan their flames with lies and propaganda only the enemy finds funny.