England is getting stupid again. First guns now knives...

[Joeaksa]

First we had the total ban of pistols owned by private citizens in England. Ten years ago a deranged man in Scotland went to a school and killed some kids, so the "kneejerk" reaction was a total ban on small firearms in the entire country. It did not matter that the local police in the mans town knew that he was not stable and should not have any weapons, everyone in the country must suffer because of their lack of foresight.

In the ten years or so since pistols have been banned, crimes with pistols has increased. Someone forgot to tell the criminals that they could not have a pistol.

Its even so rediculous that the English Olympic shooting team are not allowed to shoot pistols in the country. They have to hop on an airline, fly just over an hour to Switzerland and go to a shooting range there. Their Olympic shooting team is considered a hazzard it seems. Wonder why their team is not high up in the rankings? Could it be that they have little practice shooting?

Well, now they have come to a new low. Am sitting here in London listening to the BBC and now the police have enacted an amesty on knives for the next few weeks. They have put up large bins at various places around the country for people to turn in knives to the police with no prosecution.

It seems that several people have been stabbed in the last month or so, with some of them unfortunately being killed. Now its to the point where after the amnesty ends that if you have ANY knife in your possession you will be jailed. Its also being proposed that anyone having a knife in their possession in public would be prosecuted to the level of having a conceiled pistol, which carries a minimum 5 year prison sentenance.

Sorry but this just blows me away. How about dealing with the fighting and anger that seems to be causing much of this? Whats next, eliminating baseball bats? Trashcan lids? Pencils that could be used to poke someone's eye out? Are they going to come into our kitchens and take those knives as well? Next might be the clothes iron as it could kill someone if you hit them hard enough with it! Everytime you turn around they are trying to enact new laws instead of getting people to act like an adult.

I have a knife in my pocket right now. Grew up with one as a kid, an old Schrade. Whittled with it, used it in school and around the house and such. Have had one in my possession most of my life. Never hurt anyone with it and doubt that I ever would but now these idiots are making honest law abiding citizens into criminals by having a pocket knife in their pocket.

Am very glad that by weeks end will be back in America. Hope that we can learn from this and start working even harder to protect our civil and personal rights. What is happening in England does not need to happen here.

Joe A

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5010954.stm

Anyone found carrying an offensive weapon in a public place after the amnesty could be imprisoned for up to six months and receive a £5,000 fine.

[Joeaksa]

Seems that the rank and file public do not agree either.

Right now a public survey shows 81% of the people feel that what the police and govt are doing is not the correct way to deal with the issue.

Do not want to see anyone hurt or killed but its just not possible to make the world totally safe.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/polls/displayresults/1,,30000-1003456-2,00.html

[jorian]

They might as well eliminate soccer cleats while they're at it.

[RoninLB]

Sheet.. even firemen wear knives around here to cut thru an entanglement of wires during basement fires.

Pity that poor English citizen toasting in a car fire because the first responder couldn't cut his seat belt to get him out.

[onewhippedpuppy]

The only good thing about England's stupidity in this issue is the fact that there is now hard evidence that this sort of thing does not work. Good way to shut up the gun control lobby.

[red-beard]

Hard evidence and guncontrol do not mix.

www.gunpolicy.org

I rest my case

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
The only good thing about England's stupidity in this issue is the fact that there is now hard evidence that this sort of thing does not work. Good way to shut up the gun control lobby.

Along with the information from Australia and Canada, it should be very clear that when you take the defensive weapons out of the hands of the public, the criminals enjoy a field day.

The police cannot be everywhere all the time and in the end its the general public who suffers. I just wish that the police would realize this. Ahem, well the police and the gun haters around the world, and we have more than our share of them in America as well.

[David]

Wow! I doubt you could find someone where I work that doesn't have a knife in their pocket, including me and I have a desk job.

[gaijindabe]

Forks are dangerous too. Maybe they can eat roast beef and yorkshire pudding with their fingers?

Much like gun crime in American city's this is a failure of culture.

[legion]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Along with the information from Australia and Canada, it should be very clear that when you take the defensive weapons out of the hands of the public, the criminals enjoy a field day.

My idiot coworkers believe the opposite. They somehow believe that a ban on guns really bans all guns. Idiots.

[svandamme]

i think y'all americans need not to worry much bout us europeans
we still have a crime, and murder rate that's way lower then what you guys have, and the percentage of europeans that are in prison is just as well...

so , don't worry , we're doing rather fine...
at least we are as long as the English keep them hooligans on their island for the Soccer WC

any knife with a blade longer then the width of a hand has been forbidden in Belgium for as long as i can remember.. never bothered me ... nobody needs a knife that long while walkign on the street, nobody with good intentions that is...

[legion]

I'd hate to see how long it would take my neighbor to butcher a deer with a pocket knife in Belgium.

Also, I am guessing the meat cleavers, bread knives, butter knives, and chef's knives are all banned?

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by svandamme
i think y'all americans need not to worry much bout us europeans
we still have a crime, and murder rate that's way lower then what you guys have, and the percentage of europeans that are in prison is just as well...

so , don't worry , we're doing rather fine...
at least we are as long as the English keep them hooligans on their island for the Soccer WC

any knife with a blade longer then the width of a hand has been forbidden in Belgium for as long as i can remember.. never bothered me ... nobody needs a knife that long while walkign on the street, nobody with good intentions that is...

US Murders where at a low last time I checked, especialy in states allowing concealed weapons. The UK, has had steadily increasing murder rates ever since the gun bans. I know its been shooting up since 1999 especialy.

[svandamme]

if memory serves me right, there cannot be any slaughtering outside a slaughter house anywhere in Belgium , even for Islamic rituals, they have to go to a designated slaughterhouse...

but that's irrelevant

that article, and i'm sure the law is about walking on the street, with a blade

just like i don't see anybody butchering a deer down town NYC, i'm sure there's no such requirement for London or Edinbourgh

that law doesn't apply to cooks, butchers, or hunters ( who have to have a permit for their shotgun anyway in their own enviroment, and no cop is going to go out in the country , to do a sting on hunters carrying knives when they are wielding a shotgun ), no cop is going to do a check in the local 3 Michelin star restaurant , and book the chef and sous-chef for having a meat cleaveer or big chopping knife, they won't bust housewives in their kitchen either

it's about stopping the punks on the street cutting up folks for kicks and money

the article specifically says so

Anyone found carrying an offensive weapon in a public place after the amnesty could be imprisoned for up to six months and receive a £5,000 fine.

offensive weapon , in public place

not swiss pocket knife with a 2 maybe 3 inch blade while out in the country back packing or camping, or even hunting...

i don't have a problem with that at all
anyone who has a 5inch+ switchblade while walking up the street
is either up to no good, or has it for no reason other then beeing macho... either way , that's not about going out for hunting...

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Tervuren
US Murders where at a low last time I checked, especialy in states allowing concealed weapons. The UK, has had steadily increasing murder rates ever since the gun bans. I know its been shooting up since 1999 especialy.

ok , from the FBi

Trend
Year Number of offenses Rate per 100,000 inhabitants
2003 16,528 5.7
2004 16,137 5.5
Percent change -2.4 -3.3


http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/hosb1004.pdf

There were 853 deaths initially recorded as homicide by the police in 2003/04.

it mentions a decrease from 2002 , nothing after that (steadely increase you mentioned?? when was that from 2004 to 2005 ? i haven't seen any numbers from 2005, and 2006 is not finished yet, so that steade increase... that started in 04 , and steadely went on in 05 or what?? 2 years?? how big was the increase you mentioned, data please )

so England in Wales.. that's 50.1 million+ 2.9 million
853 deaths in 2003/04

853 violent deaths per 53 million
1.6 per 100 000


LOL it would have to increase by more then 3 times to get even close to the US overal murder rate...
the numbers are so low , that any small fluctuation will cause a rise... anyone who knows anything about statistical interpretation will tell you that's to small to attribute to anything as specific as one law beeing insteaded for gun control...

[914GT]

Originally posted by svandamme
LOL it would have to increase by more then 3 times to get even close to the US overal murder rate...

Looks like you are well on your way . These are just a small sample of recent crimes across Europe. Follow the news in Sweden http://www.thelocal.se/?PHPSESSID=83dc4c1e70191ffdea90c81c205f1758
and there's been a huge increase in rapes and murders in the past few years. Really, I don't give a flying f**k what goes on in Europe. I've been there twice and seeing what's been going on I have no intention on going back.

[svandamme]

want me to post some links to individual crimes commited all across the states??

statistics , 3 links, one to an individual crime, and another to a blog of some dude with a problem with islam and one to a newspaper.. is not really what i call hard data...

i don't need you to care about europe , that's the point i was making initially , why are you in the US worried about our gun and weapon laws, when the US has 3 times + the number of violent deaths then we do...(and that is with a constitutional right to bear arms , so it doesn't seem to work that well is it) fix your own **** before getting upset about ours...

[kumma]

Originally posted by legion
I'd hate to see how long it would take my neighbor to butcher a deer with a pocket knife in Belgium.

Also, I am guessing the meat cleavers, bread knives, butter knives, and chef's knives are all banned?

Actually the last deer I gutted and skinned was done with a a small Buck pocket knife, Ill take a good sharp pocket knife over any "Rambo" type survival one.

Regardless this knife law is just lunatics taking things to the extreme. Just wait until someone kills someone with a wooden club or their fists then what?

[id10t]

svandamme - the 2nd amendment isn't there for hunting, carrying concealed, or anything else. It is the right that protects all other rights. Never used you say? Read this .... http://www.jpfo.org/athens.htm

[svandamme]

id10t , that may be so in the US , but the poster of this thread get's upset about something in the UK , which is not covered by your precious 2nd amendment... so what's the point of getting upset, if you don't like it here, then don't move here

i don't like guns in the hands of anybody "just because the constition says so " so i'm staying put here where we have laws that make sure that doesn't happen... or at the very least makes it difficult to get them

do you see me posting threads with titles " stupid americans with theyr inability to fix the issue instead of throwing everybody in jail " ??
nope, it does not bother me that the US has the percentage of people in jails is the highest of all civilised countries.. nope , not bothered, coz i don't live there.

the only areas i will get fired up to discuss us policy , is the areas where the US has taken it upon itself to muck about outside it's borders...and i say fired up , not upset. the way i see it , the US might should fix it's own problems before getting all high and mighty and impose it's will on others..."murder rate, high percentage of it's populatin in jail, high percentage of people with no home or even basic medical , energy problems, deficit , ... "