just noticed, i had been emptying Triples, not Leffe Blondes
hence the heavyness of the Lord in my veigns

and for the record Steve, there is no such thing as wrong Leffe...

It's, "Eat, drink, and be merry; for tomorrow we may diet."

My findings have shown that non-believers are the minority.

Most people believe there is a God. ( even in France )


KT

my findings have shown, that there aren't many breweries on Antartica...

Most other continents do have breweries ( even in Afrika )

Trekkor My findings have shown that non-believers are the minority.

I hate to be brutal but I a lot of people believe in God because its convienient but if you really pin them down they are as sceptical as me. T

Trekkor My findings have shown that non-believers are the minority.

I hate to be brutal but I a lot of people believe in God because its convienient but if you really pin them down they are as sceptical as me. They believe because they are scared not because they really believe.

There is no God
There is no Devil

Man is both really good and really evil, we do not need super natural help to swing in either direction.

I didn't see it that way.

I'm just saying that nearly everyone on earth believes in a higher power that was responsible for all of what you see being here.

The details of beliefs vary widely, of course.

If you don't fit into that description, you are in the minority.
People by nature want to believe. It's in our make-up.

I've even found that people who say, "I don't believe in God", actually do.


KT

All great leaps forward for science, medicine, physics, chemestry and rational thinking were from people in the minority. Majority might rule, but they are seldom correct in their thinking. Keywords: rational thinking (free of emotion, cultural baggage and supersition, try "outside the box". Question everything! Demand answers with measurable and repeatable results. My Father always told me 10% of the people think, 15% of the people think they think, the rest would rather die than think.

welcome back!


I'm not suggesting majority means right.

In this case, the majority feels a need to acknowledge a "higher source". ( automatically )

It's not about thinkers or dumb-dumbs. :D

KT

It's not about thinkers or dumb-dumbs.

KT


Yes it is, but you would not know or understand that.

Most adults in this country also drive cars/trucks. Some drive motorcycles and a few don't drive at all. Of thos that don't drive, it may be a personal choice becuase they rather use public transit (city dwellers) or they can't afford it. Some may even just use bicycles but that is rare.

The ones that do drive cars/trucks, they drive used ones or new ones - a somewhat interestimg selection and is really based on their personal taste and what they are trying to do. In many case the ecomony plays into it while society plays a strong role as well. In certain instances, some actually make their one or modifies what they have to suit their needs better.

Sound like religion and the belief in God? It should because there is no difference. Many folks worship for the same reason they drive or are transported. There simply is no better way to get from point A to Point Z in a decent time frame.

now tell me, is the belief in God and the use of religion really any different? Not one person in any church will believe exactly the same as another in the same church.

Just because you post it, doesn't make it true.:)

I'm enjoying being part of an international brotherhood that worships in unity.



KT

if togetherness and brotherhood is what you wanted, you might as well have joined the Marine Corp..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1150188598.jpg




man , it's basically everything you've always dreamt off Trekkor !!
brotherhood, rhetoric, prayers, and living forever

Stijn, I'm pretty sure that every post you have ever made to me has been designed to irritate, distract, disturb or taunt. Why do you do that?

This last one was very weak. I did giggle, though. :)

I can't force you to believe the truth.


KT

that's the only truth there is : you can't force me

i never will...


You forgot " the truth", though. :)

I find it interesting that people come up with so many different answers to questions that have only one answer.

It's like saying there is more than one answer to 1 plus 1.
It's always 2. Anything else is false. Argue all you like, it will still be 2.

It's the same regarding the deeper things in life.

Like what the future holds.


KT

no i didn't forget the truth

if you wanna know why i'm so rebellious to your posts, simple , i will always rebel against those who present stuff , as the absolute, and only truth...

you cannot proove a single thing with facts that are indisputable
not even with your precious bible you can't, since that bible is so full of stuff that can be interpreted in different ways... so the only thing one ends up discussing , is the matter of how it was interpreted... hardly proof...

who cares what the future holds, it would be very boring to know exactly what will happen next

very boring.

Thanks for your honesty, Stijn.

All I'm saying is, there IS an absolute truth...On all issues.

I think talking to you face to face would be fun.

I'll be right over...;)


KT

Run! Run for the hills! Trekkor (with god on his side) is coming!

“There is only one truth” Trekkor.

Now there is an open minded individual. Have you ever had a logic course? If so, did you sleep though it?

If you truly (I mean - truly) believe this, then you have some serious issues. From what I have seen, the only people who view the world in absolutes are the wackos at the fringes. Most people understand that there are gray areas in everything.

You really need to qualify your statements. While you might have found peace and happiness in *your* religion - it's a total waste of time for most people on Earth - just ask them. Your implication that your way of life is best and the rest of us should really consider thinking like you do is insulting.

Mike

i'm screwed, ain't no stinking hills in Holland


stoopid country...

Back atcha slim ;)

You may feel like you and your brethern are on the same page but lets face it, you really don't know what they are thinking or why they worship. Don't think you do cuz you don't.

"Serious issues", "wacko"? Those are insults.
But, I won't take it personally because it's not my message you are rejecting.

My presentation was not designed to be insulting and if you took it that way, I'm sorry.

I'm confident that what I believe is true. "The best way of life", as you put it.
If It wasn't, why would I waste my time?

I put forth a simple question.
Where are the alternatives that result in everlasting peace?


KT

Nope no logic courses, sir.

How can a question have more than one absolute answer?
Start simple.

What is your name?
Where were you born?
What time is it?
What is the date?

Obviously no need to answer, but I hope you see that any question has an absolute answer. If the answer is not known it may seem challenging or hard to grasp.
If we know the answer, of course, it's simple to us.

I've been asking the questions for a very long time.
I have learned a lot of the answers.

I don't know it all...only one does.;)


KT

They are all equally fictional.

Why do you say that?


Kt

Satan told me to type this: Because no faith based belief system can be validated as less fictional than any other - they all exist as reality only in the mind of the believer.

Truthfully though, I say this because I am related to a person with an attitude like yours (formerly a dear brother) and you lot REALLY give me the heebee geebees (sp). Nothing personal with you though - I'm just at my wits end with the guy and get a little kick out of brightening your day.

I will pipe in here. Trekkor is not a tyrant trying to beat you down. He is simply sharing his beliefs with us all as we are with him. I have found that when people get hostile and defensive it is mainly due to their failure to see that other people may have valid points. Christianity teaches that we should love and respect one another. It also teaches that we should try to lift up our brothers and help them; helping them includes sharing the teachings of the Bible. If someone rejects the sharing of faith, that is O.K.. By dismissing his beliefs, I don’t think he is offended; he just believes what he believes and wants to help others feel as secure as his faith makes him feel. I say he is trying to “share the joy”` and more people should follow suit.
As humans, we look for answers to life’s troubles. While religion may not provide all the answers, it teaches people a way to cope. Faith is best described as believing in something that you cannot prove. We all have faith in the sun coming up every morning but we can’t prove it. Some may argue that one can be fairly certain, based on past performances, that it will indeed rise but we don’t know for sure.
We are creatures of conditioning and exposure. If one were born in Tibet, Buddha would probably be “GOD”. Saudi Arabia-“Allah”. You see, we believe what we are conditioned to believe. God comes in many different forms to many different people. Where religion gets convoluted is when man tries to make it fit his particular needs and desires. Intolerance of others was not the teachings of any prophet or God. All religions are basically the same; live by a set of moral standards, help others, believe in a "god" and you will be rewarded in this life and the next. Wonder why they all teach the same basics?????
I come from a family on ministers. My grandfather attended Seminary College and preached for 50 plus years; he supported his family as a carpenter and contractor. He is one of the smartest individuals I have ever known and many community leaders often sought his advice on a wide range of topics. When he was in his 80’s I remember having a conversation with him about some of his recent health problems. As he described a certain procedure he had, I remarked that “That will make you loose your religion!” He quickly came back that he didn’t have any “religion”, “religion is mans misinterpretations of what God wanted for his children. I have the spirit of God helping me understand that I do not understand much at all.” Now that my friend is humility
I am a Christian and I do believe that God is real and is watching over us as any parent would. I also believe that my surroundings formed my beliefs and I accept that. Furthermore, I also understand that it all could be a hoax from some past writers that wanted the societies for the rest of time to behave in a certain “Christianly manner”. I can’t think of a better set of guidelines for a good life and happy society than the Ten Commandments and apparently our law makers agree as many of our social laws are based on these “guidelines for Christians. If we Christians are wrong, we have lost nothing when we die; if non-believers are wrong, they have lost forever.

Trekkor wrote:
Nope no logic courses, sir.

How can a question have more than one absolute answer?
Start simple.

What is your name?
Where were you born?
What time is it?
What is the date?

Let’s answer these one at a time.
1) What is your name? Slang, scientific, American, French, etc., which one?
2) Where were you born? Universe, galaxy, system, continent, country, state, city, hospital, room, bed, which one?
3) What time is it? Celestial, Zulu, Local, Atomic, Geological, etc., which one?
4) What is the date? Jewish, Mayan, Julian, Roman, Greek, Epoch, etc., which one?

As you can see you world only “works” with a narrow view, reality will not work that way. Each answer would be correct and completely different from one another. Again try a critical thinking or logic course.

Thank you for posting, Ben.

I appreciate the time you spent to share your thoughts.


KT

trekkor
California
8:51 am
6/14/2006


You can play games if you like.
If you'll notice, the leaders of this world play games full-time.
That's why no "other" solutions are presented and thus mankind in general has no hope...

KT

you just prooved his point

TRekkor is probably not what is written on your birth certificate
i'm sure it has more then "TRekkor" on it..

California , is a big place , so i'm sure there's something else on yoru B cert for location as well, a town perhaps

8:51 am ... could be answered in military time, Zulu time as well

the date could be spelled out , or switched to euro style "14/6/06) etc etc


you say mankind has no hope, in the long run , that's pretty much true... anything that exists , will at some point stop existing.. it's even mentioned like that in yer bible.. ashes to ashes, dust to dust... it is the way of things , on a micro level, and also on a macro (species) level

" Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld". -Hebrews 11:1


Not needed, sir.

Faith is *required* by all.

Everything you do is motivated by faith.

For example, when I leave for work today, I have faith that the jobsite will still be there witha all my tools, etc.

I won't know for sure until I get there, but I have the faith that it will.

You don't like that one?

No problem.
Ever make an appointment?
You keep it because you have faith that they will be there waiting for you.


I have faith that God will step in, remove the wicked, and govern in a righteous way...In perfect justice.


KT

i have faith that this thread will continue to go around and around in circles.

Come on thread....daddy needs a new pair of shoes!

Stijn ,
My answers were correct. Sure, I left out details that are not important to this discussion.

The game players could even go so far as to claim an answer could be given in a different language. That would make it different, too...Right?


KT

Your assumption that *all* questions have absolute answers is the flaw in your argument. Not all questions have simple black and white answers.

Starting simple:

"Is chocolate the best flavor of ice cream?"

What is the absolute answer to that question?

Or, moving up in difficulty:

"Is it ever correct to end the life of another human being?"

Yes or no. Pick the absolute answer to that question.

Mike

All religions play the same game, provide absolute answers so that their members do not have to question nor think. This is abundantly clear in the responses by Trekkor. He refuses to consider any other answers, because he "knows" he right. The very definition of a narrow minded individual. Is this an insult or rude to Trekkor? Of course not, just as christians, muslems, etc., feel they are compelled to spread the manure, oops, I mean "word". It is my GOD given job to spread the truth about closed minded, bigoted people who want to insist that their way is the only way for all of us. As long as they continue this nonsense, I must and will fight on!

i'm not disputing correctness
i'm disputing that they are the absolute answer to the questions asked...

they are obviously not , since they can be answered with, or without the details added... and both options are correct

if you can't even acknowledge something with logic as basic as this , then you are either either incapable of logical thinking, or not willing to ...

You guys are funny :)

You want to nit-pick argue with me about things that are not important, but refuse to acknowledge that man's governments are not doing it. Never will, and will be removed very soon.

Why?

Question my logic all day long if you want. We're in the last days...


KT

Well, I think some of us think you're funny. You got inside knowledge on that, or just an inspired guess?