Motor oil and Zinc- problems? solution?

[RANDY P]

I was surfing a site tonight and ran across an article that they have mandated (back in 2004) ZDDP (Zinc) levels be dropped in Motor Oil. Zinc is considered an anti wear additive.

http://highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0606_understanding_motor_oil/index1.html

I guess it fouls Catalytic converters.... Only one of my rigs has a cat - and it's got 4 doors and only sips Mobil 1. This is for the 911 and my other rig which is emissions exempt (1970)

That would explain changes in some old favorites (Green Kendall comes to mind) but does anyone have any reccomendations for a good substitute? Motor oil for diesels?

Reason I ask is that I'm doing some research - planning on finishing up a fairly high dollar v-8 shortly and I'd like to keep it running straight. I guess there are a lot of complaints of camshafts going flat quickly without the Zinc.

Lubemaster? Any other Pelicans have any suggestions?

rjp

[turbo6bar]

You probably need to find analysis for each brand of oil. Some diesel oils have zinc and some don't. Also, diesel oils can be rated for combustion engines, and therefore do not carry zinc.

[RANDY P]

From what I can tell - it looks like it's been limited in everything that is commerciallly available - even those with advertised extra "zinc" off road only oils have limited amounts - at least compared to even average formulations several years ago.

It's definitely going to be an issue if I have to teardown every now and then thanks to a flattened cam..

rjp

[M.D. Holloway]

Randy - the whole ZDDP debate is a sticky mess. In one camp you have folks saying that it doesn't play havoc on emissions and on the other side you have folks wanting to drive down the concentraion of sulfur and phosphorus in products in general. Still others claim that the product will corrode yellow metals found in various componants. I agreee and to some extent disagree with them all - there is much more that goes into it then you can imagine. AT the end of the day you want incrased relaibility and increase oil life and a decrease in emissions. It can be achieved but through a few different ways. focusing on one player is myopic.

We have some pretty active R&D going on trying to come up with a viable alternate. Some Boron products are looking promising while certain oil sol molybdium and or molybdium disulfide (which have always been of interest) have been working out well. There are even some other non-conventional compounds that have shown very good promise. All will take many years to bring to the market and the reason is the API.

The American Petroleum Institute pretty much sets the standards for engine oils. Any and all formulations have to pass their aceptance criteria. Various new additives have to be blessed - if not, the oil will not get the API blessing. I would npt suggest ever using an oil with API approval. The API watchdag keeps many of the snakeoils off the market (think Slick 50!).

[B D]

Here's a page with some of the numbers including zinc: http://www.atis.net/oil_faq.html

Chevron seems to be a good choice when considering price ($17 a case at Costco), or try Valvoline Racing if $3+ a quart.

[M.D. Holloway]

Chevron makes ZDDP (as do three others, Lubrizol, Infinium, and Ethyl Corp). Chevron Orenite produces a secondary version, a little cheaper and less agressive. If more and more people wig out over ZDDP it may send there mfg into a tail spin. Chevron has plenty of $$$ but no company want their chem plant to go idel or be forced to re-tool.

[RANDY P]

Yep - it seems like they silently changed formulas. From what I read it's not a big deal in newer cars, but older vehicles it's causing some failures. Funny thing is that it's been there forever, and they're just now phasing it out. Go figure.

Mobil 1 and other synthetics from what I read aren't much help with that issue either. Who would've thought that it makes that much of a difference? It appears that it's gathering some attention with the pushrod guys though.

rjp

[turbo6bar]

Yep, looks like you're right. The SI certified oils still had zinc. Looks like we are up to SL or better, with no ZDDP??? B D, those are SG spec oils. I can't find anything on SL.

Are there any motorcycle oils that aren't ridiculously expensive? They supposedly have zinc, but who knows these days.

[pmajka]

Not to hijack the thread, but, i was reading Excellance Magazine, and one of the staff stated that Porsche had re recommended that their cars use 0w40 or 5w40 in their cars since the changes in the Quality of Motor oil.

Can some one confirm if this is for newer or all porsches?

[DeutschMark]

Lube, I know that oil additives generally aren't beneficial and are a waste of money, but how about STP? Doesn't this contain Zinc?

[M.D. Holloway]

The old standard STP was only PIB polymer. It gave the oil more viscosity so it reduced blowby and carbonized to help plug oil leaks. There is also a STP-4 which is the PIB and additives that help with wear and oxidation but not much more. It may make the oil higher in viscosity effecting low temperature properties, otherwise everything is good. I will have to pull up my database and check to see the ZDDP concentraion and see if it would hurt. Stand by...

[M.D. Holloway]

Looks like the STP-4 does contain a few hundred parts of ZDDP. That would increase ash and maybe some other problems associated with phosphorus and sulfur. With the new requirements coming out soon, STP will be forced to reformulate as will amny engine oil producers.

[DeutschMark]

Interesting. Thanks for the info.