Firing legacy employees.......no fun.

lendaddy · 06-13-2006, 11:54 AM

Today I mustered up the guts to sit down a couple employees for the bye bye talk. I HATE doing that, but I finally made myself do it. Times are really tough here and these two are really boat anchors anymore. They have been here so long that they feel untouchable (15 years). Their cost vs output simply made them inviable to me. Not to mention poor attitude as they are at the top of my pay scale and have been for a while. In this business there is a ceiling and that's that. This sours some folk and their attitude becomes a cancer in the shop. With the business on the fence financially I have to do what I have to do.

I know, I'm an ogre.

One took it well and shook my hand, the other cried and promised to send her husband "in to see me". That should be interesting.

Anyway, I'm glad it's (mostly) over as I needed to do it, but I'm sad that I had to.

Thank goodness for Michigan "at will " employement laws.

Mulhollanddose · 06-13-2006, 11:57 AM

It is your responsibility to employ them regardless of your profitabiity...Haven't you learned anything from the media yet (not that they adhere to it, but they expect you to)?

Moneyguy1 · 06-13-2006, 11:59 AM

Len

It is always a difficult position to be in. However, the viability of the company comes first. You could "nice guy" yourself into bankruptcy.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

You did what you had to do. Don't beat yourself up over it. Congrats on getting rid of the deadweight and best of luck to keeping your business solvent!

masraum · 06-13-2006, 12:00 PM

Hey, they needed to go. If they were unhappy then it's best for everyone. People often get to feel untouchable, but everyone is expendable.

lendaddy · 06-13-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Len

It is always a difficult position to be in. However, the viability of the company comes first. You could "nice guy" yourself into bankruptcy.

Indeed, I got the same advice from my insurance rep (family friend), he said I'm too much of a good guy and good guys get eaten alive. I think there is a happy middle.

But anyway, my subconcious was trying to talk me into excuses not to do it, then I looked at the pic of my son on my desk and that made up my mind. I have to put my family before theirs, sad but true.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
the other cried and promised to send her husband "in to see me". That should be interesting.

Hope you have a 45 in your top desk drawer. I take statements like that very seriously.

Jims5543 · 06-13-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Today I mustered up the guts to sit down a couple employees for the bye bye talk. I HATE doing that, but I finally made myself do it. Times are really tough here and these two are really boat anchors anymore. They have been here so long that they feel untouchable (15 years). Their cost vs output simply made them inviable to me. Not to mention poor attitude as they are at the top of my pay scale and have been for a while. In this business there is a ceiling and that's that. This sours some folk and their attitude becomes a cancer in the shop. With the business on the fence financially I have to do what I have to do.

I know, I'm an ogre.

One took it well and shook my hand, the other cried and promised to send her husband "in to see me". That should be interesting. Anyway, I'm glad it's (mostly) over as I needed to do it, but I'm sad that I had to.

Thank goodness for Michigan "at will " employement laws.

its never easy to let people go. I know where your coming from. The most dreadful thing I have ever done is fire an employee, even when they deserve it its still hard to do.

Laying people off due to a tanking economy is the worst, you know they are in trouble because there are hardly any jobs available.

Who ever thinks we are not on the fast track to a recession is turning a blind eye. I am about 2 months away from making some cuts myself.

Lendaddy I am a nice guy like you, I should be laying off right now but I have some "emergancy" money to keep the staff I have for another 2 months hoping for things to get better. I have been paying them 40 hours a week for a couple of months now even though they are only working 30 or less. I can afford to keep that up for a few more weeks.

Mulhollanddose · 06-13-2006, 12:12 PM

You all need some sensitivity training...Time to go rent Michael Moore's movie again.

lendaddy · 06-13-2006, 12:16 PM

I know what you Jim, even after this we're in real trouble. My sales have been fairly steady, but my costs are going nutso. There is a real chance of our doors closing in the not so immediate future. I can start over, but my father (essentially retired) will lose his "retirement fund" if you will. I really can't let that happen if at all possible.

I have a bottle of Malox on my desk, in my truck, and on my nightstand. Fun fun fun.

Moneyguy1 · 06-13-2006, 12:19 PM

mul: If you had ever been in this situation on either side of the desk, you might just understand. Anyone who has been a manager understands. Len had a difficult job to do, and he did it.

lendaddy · 06-13-2006, 12:21 PM

Oh and Jim, don't you do surveying? My buddy is an exec here at a big surveying and civil engineering firm and they just did wholesale layoffs today as well.

He says that industry in in a serious hurt up here. Keep in mind this is Michigan and we are much worse off than most right now.

Jims5543 · 06-13-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Oh and Jim, don't you do surveying? My buddy is an exec here at a big surveying and civil engineering firm and they just did wholesale layoffs today as well.

He says that industry in in a serious hurt up here. Keep in mind this is Michigan and we are much worse off than most right now.

Yes, I am in the Surveying business. We have watched a steady decline for the last 2 years. I expect the next 3 to be really bad. Beyond that? I have no clue. I have spent the "good times" making it so that I can flip burgers if I have to to get by. Instead of selling and buying a McMansion I payed off my humble home.

I have a plan B but my wife does not like it. I want to sell or rent our house in FLA. I have a second home in NC with a small mortgage. I can find work in a minute there. Possibly open another business there. But, she does not want to leave FLA for lots of good reasons. If pushed financially I might have to put my foot down and do it though.

A few of my employees know this might be an option and they are ready to follow me up there. I hope it does not come down to that.

A few of my clients have already closed up and oved away. So its not looking good here either.

notfarnow · 06-13-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RickM
Hope you have a 45 in your top desk drawer. I take statements like that very seriously.

Ditto. Worked in a small town one summer, and had to fire a local. Her father came back later that night... drunk. Luckily, the local cop happened by and calmed him down. The cop knew the guy, and told me I'd be wise to stay at a friend's that weeknd. He showed up at my place at 230 AM. Luckily I had heeded the advice.

turbo6bar · 06-13-2006, 12:52 PM

L-daddy, I don't have employees (I just work for myself in the family business), but I have learned the hard way business is business. Sometimes you gotta be able to block out the emotions and do what's in the best interest of the business. You may have released 2 employees, but if this strengthens the business, you may be saving the jobs of many others, yourself included.

RPKESQ · 06-13-2006, 01:55 PM

Lendaddy,
Don't let this get you down. All responsible adults have to make tough decisions. You did the right thing. Your loved ones first. Always. By the way, the two you fired had the responsiblity to make themselves worth more to you, or to find different jobs before they lost the one they had.
I always hire after two things, a very complete background check and after they answer the question "How can you make me money?" If they cannot answer that, I don't need them.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Your family, your business, and the livelihoods of your other employees come first.

No employee has the right to lifetime employment. Every employee has the obligation to make themselves too valuable to let go, and to have set aside enough savings to make it to the next job. Firing them now is better than in a year when we're in a recession.

Hopefully you'd previously indicated to them that you were unhappy with/expected more from their work. Doesn't mean they had to understand it - often people refuse to hear what they don't want to hear.

Do take precautions about the husband.

lendaddy · 03:50 PM

Thanks guys, I'm not feeling guilty at all but that doesn't make the experience less pleasant if you know what I mean.

Regarding warnings, one did get a verbal warning via my foreman and the other........well I knew it wouldn't work and would likely cause even more issues (think sabotage). See, some of these guys remember working with me 15 years ago when I was in high school. Me being their boss and ordering them around doesn't always sit well with them and the resentment can be a high hurdle.

Superman · 06-13-2006, 03:47 PM

Perhaps you should have invited a labor union into the discussion.

Just kidding. I support you, Len. You tolerate my whining and troublemaking here, and I can see you are a reasonable man. The ship has to be saved, even if the cost is a couple of crew.

I've terminated people before also. It's like a slap in the balls with a porcupine, only it hurts more.

I'm guessing you did all you could. You'll get no second-guessing from me. At least, not this time.

Another thing to consider is that when doors close, others open. It is very likely that those two have developed dry, boring economic lives. Their next gig will be much more stimulating. Sometimes getting kicked out into the cold helps your focus, and things end up better than before.

sorry for your stress, Len.

K9Torro · 06-13-2006, 03:52 PM

If you are a surveyor you need to move here, we have a total of three in our COUNTY and they are snowed under in business, it takes three weeks to a month just to get a simple lot survey for a home purchase here. Not to mention they are working seven days a week with multiple crews, MOVE HERE NOW...

Todd