What is the absolute best business app user interface?

[Wrecked944]

Well, with the help of the Pelican community, I managed to get my little legal docketing app to work...

Pelican attorneys and paralegals? Where can I learn about legal docketing?

With the excellent advice from SoCal911SC, Rodeo, CC, BRPORSCHE, and greglepore, I developed a flexible rules engine that should be able to model most of the docket scenarios needed without too many headaches. And after hearing your opinions, I think it wise to let the customers populate the rules engine themselves - or perhaps ship with a set of rules from an established third party. You guys rock and I can't thank you enough.

So it is going well. But now I am struggling with the user interface. On the advice of fellowPelican, ChrisBennet, I am using the .NET development platform. And it is a nice tool. But unfortunately, it is a bit limited. I am finding that everything developed on .NET tends to look pretty much the same...like every other boring old Windows app.

So here is the deal. I want to make the user interface for this thing "sing"...not merely function. So I am searching around for the best examples out there so I can learn from them. I first looked at the stuff being developed for the Mac. But a lot of that software is too cute for a business app...it looks like it was developed by Fischer Price.

So with that in mind, I am coming here - where I always get such good advice. So can anyone recommend a really killer app that I can learn from? Any user interfaces that don't feel like torture to use? If people are going to be using this thing every day for years to come, I don't want them to be cursing my name to Hell. I really want it to be easy to use and intuitive as well as aesthetically pleasing.

[MichiganMat]

Are we talking about a web app here, or a standalone system-based application? Im Mac biased, so bear with me here:

Web App: I don't know much about that world, but from all I've heard, the WebObjects tool kit is pretty much the isht for that kind of stuff.

System-dependent App: Take another look at the Mac stuff. It seems "cute" and kinda silly until you get your hands into it and find all the really great stuff that'll make your app *pop*. Besides, the business world could use some "cute", their Win apps suck so much ass its not even funny.

[id10t]

The above about Mac is correct - look at the aqua developer guidelines, even if you are doing win32 stuff. The Mac dev team follows the one-button mouse rule, and it really does help the interface useabil.ity.

[nostatic]

I'd ditch .net first off, but that's my bias. I refuse to have any of our developers make any more .asp crap.

Most of the Apple apps have a very clean interface. The pro series of apps (FinalCut, Logic, etc) are anything but FisherPrice. But UI is task and demographic dependent. Are you dealing with lawyers or paralegals or ?

One of my favorite UIs belongs to Live:

http://www.ableton.com

I'm pretty tired of photo-realistic 3D stuff. Give me a clean delineated interface.

Also look as some of the gaming UIs.

[legion]

Funny, this is exactly what I do for a living. (Well, I work on the back-end of a rules engine.)

Unfortunately, my contract prevents me from talking about the stuff I've specifically developed. I will say that UIs for rules engines come with a steep learning curve. Most of the users will know the business, but not necessarily how to construct logic.

Just an aside, have you looked into CA's Aion, or Fair Isaac's Blaze Advisor?

[legion]

When I think of front-ends that sing, I think of Java or C++.

How is this being deployed?

Is it just an app on a workstation, fat client, thin client?

[MichiganMat]

Oh man, scratch what I posted above. This "Business Rules" game appears to be much to large to be written from scratch with a dev kit. I would still use the Cocoa objects available Apple tool kit if I were to do any of this stuff though.

[legion]

You can believe in what the theorists like Ron Ross say you should do, or you can develop something that works and performs well...

[Wrecked944]

Okay, I shold have given more details. At present, this is a stand alone Windows app - no web component yet. However, a demo version written with ASP is on the "To Do" list so potential users can give it a test run without having to install anything. The rules engine is actually relatively straightforward. Each docket event triggers one or more other events which can, in turn, trigger more. A simple recursive algorithm does the date calculations and builds a schedule. Users decide the number of days to add or subtract from each event to schedule the next event. Various options are included (like year end dates, recurring events, etc) and reminders are also scheduled. The hard part is understanding what to put in to the rules - not how. And that is probably going to be left to the users (who are, presumably, lawyers and paralegals).

As for the .NET platform, I have mixed feelings but generally lean towards liking it. And that says a lot since I generally think Microsfot products suck. At least once a day, the IDE crashes my machine and/or corrupts a source file and/or "loses" track of an important resource. As stated earlier, it has a very limited selection of interface options. But despite those problems, it allows a solo programmer with average abilities to produce an astounding amount of relatively bug free code.

The app I am working on will include a number of somewhat distinct functions and I am trying to find high quality examples of each so I can learn the best ways to present them. They include the Rules Engine, Calendering (aka Docketing), Document Management, Time/Billing (including Contingency Accounting), Estate Trust Accounting/Reporting, Legal Matter Management, and maybe some Customer Relationship Management stuff. I know it sounds like a lot. But from a strictly techie perspective, it is just a bunch of databases and screens. Add/Update/Delete and reports. No biggie. The trick is to present it in a way that is intuitive and doesn't require a 700 page User Manual.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by JanusCole


I know it sounds like a lot. But from a strictly techie perspective, it is just a bunch of databases and screens. Add/Update/Delete and reports. No biggie. The trick is to present it in a way that is intuitive and doesn't require a 700 page User Manual.

*sigh* spoken like a true programmer.

Just because it is easy to do on the backend doesn't mean you should implement it. You need to start with that the user needs to do first, then build to that capability...not the other way around. Feature creep kills more applications than anything...except maybe piss poor UI.

We spend an incredible amount of time focused on UI and information architecture. And that has to be done *before* any code is written imho...because the code is the easy part.

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by nostatic
*sigh* spoken like a true programmer.

Hey man, that's why I'm here! I don't want my users to read the 700 page manual. I want them to double click the icon and know instinctively how everything works from the start.

[campbellcj]

LOL, I -wish- we had only a 700 page manual. Our app is also "just" a bunch of database maintenance and query screens - around 1,300 of 'em.

One thing I know from experience about UI's -- it is impossible to please everyone. But if you include personalization and navigation options to cater to the novice user to the super user, or anyone in between, you will come about as close as possible. For us that means help functions and tailorable (simplifyable) menus for the newbies, and keyboard shortcuts and so forth for the super users.

I also believe responsiveness (speed) is paramount. An app that grabs control from the user for more than a second or two at any point has high user-frustration potential.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by JanusCole
Hey man, that's why I'm here! I don't want my users to read the 700 page manual. I want them to double click the icon and know instinctively how everything works from the start.

I charge $1K/day plus expenses. I'll draft a MOU if you're interested

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by nostatic
I charge $1K/day plus expenses. I'll draft a MOU if you're interested

Thanks for the offer but it won't be necessary. I am only looking for examples of well designed UI's. I'm sure I can take it from there.

Overall, I'm pretty disappointed with the current state of the art in UI's for the business world. Of course, the up side is that anyone who can develop a superior interface has an instant advantage. The folks at Apple have obviously set the gold standard. But they seem to have focused mostly on music, movies, etc - not business apps. Lots of great work has been done at/for Apple. But if my docket control system looks anything like iTunes, I suspect the customers will dismiss it out of hand.

[legion]

Keep in mind, part of the reason business apps have boring, similar interfaces is so that you don't have to memorize the specifics of every program you use...

[MichiganMat]

Originally posted by legion
Keep in mind, part of the reason business apps have boring, similar interfaces is so that you don't have to memorize the specifics of every program you use...

That, and building decent UIs in MFC takes an army of engineers.

The standardized UI objects in MFC are butt-ugly as well. That multi-level toolbar belongs in the trash. Seriously, Id like to punch the guy who cooked that thing up.

Why put in the effort to make it look good when the tools are crap, the objects are ugly, and the code impossible to use? Thats the reason why I wrote more tools in VisualBasic than in MFC when I was on that side of the fence. I could get more done in less time with VB and just settled with the knowledge that it all looked like crap.

As for good Apple UIs in the business style, check out Automator, OmniGraffle, QuickBooks, AccountEdge, etc.

Search around VersionTracker as well, its a big storage/search website of thousands of Apple-based projects, Im sure they have business stuff on there like what you'll looking for.

Heres the business section of VersionTracker: http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/cat/business

[david.avery]

I use the telerik kit for .net web apps, very interactive ajax-type apps.

http://www.telerik.com/

And also, I think it's funny to say that .net looks like every other windows app. The best way to design apps is to support skinning, then you can have someone with a graphic arts background provide skins.

[Wrecked944]

Thanks for the links. I am surfing them now. And as for skinning, I pretty much assumed the only way to modify the aesthetics was to do some sort of skinning. But unfortunately, I am the entire "development department" on this project, so I am the "someone with a graphics arts background"...