I don't know if I "fear" a wider war, but I think it's necessary to resolve the Islamofascist issue. The situation is not going to improve in any material manner w/o bloodshed, and lots of it, IMHO. Better theirs there than ours here.

I suppose I welcome a wider war, preferably in times and manners of our choosing. Though I welcome the conflict with some dread and not for conflict's sake, but for the resolution I believe only it can achieve.

JP

+1 The scenario may be a bit different, but the dogs of war on both sides are winning. 7 3/8, a Porsche logo would be nice.

Before I read this, after reading Rick's post, I was thinking the same thing. I understand why you say this ... it brings us back to the comfortable WWII analogy. It makes the struggle linear and understandable.

You won't get WWIII that looks anything like WWII, precisely for the same reason you want it. It plays to our strength.

I have a problem with all that: starting a war is always a guarantee of many deads on both sides. Especially, starting a war based on terrorist events seems a bit disproportionate. Seems to me that terrorism and islamofacism are convenient excuses for enforcing of policy that was decided well in advance. Just like Israel attacking lebanon for eight soldiers killed, or the USA invading Iraq for the fear of WMDs...All that seems like overreaction with deadly consequences to me. And you know what? The threat of Nukes falling in terrorists hands is well real already, since North Korea has them. So why always insiting on invading oil-rich countries? Could it be that the only threat the USA is really facing is to lack supply of cheap oil?

Aurel

Oil is cheap?

And what resolution might that be other than what we've already seen; and that's a galvanization of "them" (Muslims, Islamofascists, etc) against "us" (Democratic Judeo-Christians).

Sure, it'll be a wider war, but unless, as someone earlier mentioned, "nukes" get involved, the resolution being killing everything about these enemies, we're really just involved in a lot of schoolyard pushing and shoving.

The real question is, if we nuke the countries where these individuals reside, killing innocents and destroying infrastructure and culture in the process, plus getting stuck with the "you break it, you buy it" rule, can we look at ourselves in the mirror and say we've done a good thing?

Nukes may be the answer, because no one wants to go forth with the other answers:

1) Abandon Iraq
2) Abandon Israel

Oil is still very cheap in the USA, absolutely. Cheaper then a gallon of water. For how long, I don`t know. Hence the urgency to invade.

Aurel

here's my fear. Hundreds (thousands?) of sleeper cells in the US. Once we decide that we have to "drop the big one" (Iran perhaps?), the poison pill gets dropped and they all go active. Then the "American way of life" is over.

Solution? Like Rodeo said (and JP agreed :eek:), a little of this, and a little of that. And a lot of counter intelligence. But full-scale traditional warfare in the ME? Ain't gonna work. Remember the cold war? We won because we bankrupted Russia, right? So how much in debt is the US right now? If the terrorists want to "win" all they have to do is keep us mired in traditional combat somewhere on the globe, and do the occasional sneaker strike. The MIC will eventually put us so far in debt that we'll be toast.

There's a reason I'm learning Mandarin. And I hear Yunnan province is beautiful...

This is why you guys wouldn't mind a major confrontation with middle east states, along the lines of WWII:

In a briefing at Scotland Yard, the police said they had arrested 21 people in connection with the plot. Later, Nasir Ahmed, a member of the House of Lords who is of Pakistani origin, said the police had told him that all 21 suspects were British Muslims.

You want WWIII to look like WWII because nobody walked into a grocery store in Boston during WWII and blew themselves up, nobody drove a car bomb into one of Cleveland's elementary schools, and nobody poisoned the drinking water in Huston.

WWII was the good old days. This threat cannot be met exclusively with bombs and infantry and warships. As long as people are willing to die for radical Islam, innocents will die with them.

When Muslims are unwilling kill for some sick version of Islam, the war will be won, but not before.

Muslims need a supply of real virgins on earth, so they don`t have to feel like they will only get them in Heaven ! I had theorized that polygamy was a root cause for suicidal terrorist behavior, because it creates an excess of single males with no hope of ever hitting a virgin...

Aurel

Yep!
 

Yep, me thinks it too...

they need to not have Palestine as "reason" for beeing ticked off, so they can stop beeing ticked off at the US for sponsoring Israel

take that out of the picture, and they will instantly start cutting eachothers throats again , just like they have been doing since the days of Mohammed himself, and even way before that...

Even if the current "reasons" for Muslim "unrest" were resolved to their satisfaction, new ones would come up. Those I have met (sadly) feel generally superior to all other cultures and religions. A truly myopic view of the world that will not go away easily. But, there is hope. With the ME governments teaching hate and unrest, it just might turn inward and wind up doing the job that missles and smart weapons cannot.

Re: 9/11.....8/10????????
 

No, no; Judaism is the religion of peace.
http://images18.fotki.com/v331/photo...9/leb71-vi.jpg
Downtown Beirut.

Re: Re: 9/11.....8/10????????
 

And all this time Pat was claiming he has nothing against the Jews. He only disapproves of the Israeli gov. :rolleyes: RIGHT......

Now we see that he dislikes Judaism (the religion) as well. SmileWavy

Is that one of the doctored photos or a real one?

Re: Re: 9/11.....8/10????????
 

That picture brings a tear to my eye. :cool:

FO: Left five zero, drop five zero, fire for effect.
FDC: Battery, 10 rounds, HE, charge 7, deflection 2670...

Sure do miss killin' folks with my cannons.
Howard, Chief of Firing Battery, ret. http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/icon26.gif

Israel is the big excuse. Failed states and failed societies that need a common enemy - but Israel can defend itself. When the revolt of the oppressed Shia minorities in Sunni Arab countries starts - (with Irans help) it will make the worst day in Bagdad look like a picnic.

Well, the Germans certainly suffered a lot during WWII with bombings and random sniping and murder by the civilian population throughout Europe. And the Japanese used suicide and fight to the death tactics during WWII.

But we are talking about 2 different things. A war, a real war, you would not be worried about the suicide bombers in the market place. It is during the occupation that these things occur.

And that is the root problem. This isn't solely about economics as the "white man's burden" position takes. This ideology and its individuals, some from quite well-to-do backgrounds, are out to make you muslim or dead.

As with sociopaths the only way to stop their activities (killing or hurting) is to eliminate them. Make as many of them as possible martyrs IMO.

I note that many have felt some "burden" with sociopaths too, and thought that they could "rehabilitate" sociopaths only to have society experience the recidivism.