What do you think the violence in Iraq is/has been about. It always (and continues to be) sectarian violence. Nothing to do with Palestine.

I'm afraid you're wrong about that. Between porous borders, virtually non-existent container screening, and sleeper cells already in the US, any war with Iran would be at your and my front door.

Battlefields like WWII will be the exception, not the rule.

I'm not of a WWII mindset (at least how I'd define it) about the current state of affairs.

The mindset that I am seized of (and the mindset that has allowed the West to prevail in every struggle to date) is that of Total War. Complete dedication to victory in an all-out effort to annihilate the enemy, utilizing all available resources. Does that, in this case, mean armored divisions all over the ME? Probably not.

But only the West can beat the West (cf. Athens and its failure of conviction; Rome and the erosion of resolve within). Check out Victor Davis Hanson's books Carnage and Culture, Ripples of Battle and The Soul of Battle (my favorite, though least apropos to this discussion).

I strongly recommend Carnage and Culture to anybody even remotely interested in history, warfare or anthropology. Read a couple of reviews on Amazon

JP

Shiites and Sunnis do hate eachother more than they hate americans, and that goes back to the time of the prophet. Iraq will end up in three states: Kurdes, Shiites and Sunnis. I really don`t understand this obsession of the British, then the americans, to unite them. I took a dictator like Saddam to achieve that. A democracy will never achieve such a goal. The way out of Iraq, IMHO, is to set those three states up, and get out of there. If it is done as fairly as possible (and not like creating a new Israel), it could work better than the current aproach.

Aurel

aurel -- it could, if, say, Iran wasn't f*cking around with the whole thing.

JP

Iran is interested in doing the same thing the Republican Party of the United States is interested in doing: Keeping American forces in Iraq for the foreseeable future.

Well, that`s another reason why the Iran war is starting soon then ;)

Aurel

We've been had.

The sooner we realize that, the sooner we get out and mobilize for the real conflict.

Aurel, you're right, of course, same with Afghanistan. Differing folks with hatreds going back thousands of years formed into 'countries' by the West. But JP has a point: Each of those countries divided would quickly fall prey to their powerful neighbors.

Of course, if the West continues on its current track, their hatred for us and Israel will unite them, and THEN we can nuke 'em. Pass me that foil hat. :D

Rodeo! I'm impressed. First good reason I've ever heard for getting out.

I agree with you. Mark the day, this never happens....

Hmmm. Both Sing and I agree with Rodeo today...

new meds, Rodeo? Or has some clever bastard stolen your password and is attempting to ruin your reputation hereon by having you post occasional sense?

JP

In a war with Iran, would not bases in Iraq be of immeasurable tactical value?

Not if there is a comitment to support and arm them just like the USA is supporting and arming Israel. But me thinks Israel would have a problem with that.

Aurel

Nah, I think they'd kill each other first.

Ok, ya'll are helping me crystalize an idea on how to get out of this mess. First we bail on Irag. I don't like doing that because we said we would help those folks but it doesnt look like they much want any now that Sadamn is gone. The Sunni and Shiite conflict will heat to a boil. Civil war ensues and now Iran formally moves troops into Irag. The Saudi and other Sunni tribes move to prevent. We play both sides and sell them both arms and have CIA continue to stir it up if they seem to be coming to thier senses. Both will have to sell oil to US in order to continue the orgy of death. Now we have are sales and cheap oil. Whichever side wins will be decidedly weaker and the West can now walk in and conquer. Israel is in a tough spot. I think we can continue to prop them up for the duration. Israel should abandon less strategic areas and concentrate thier forces and population in a smaller area. They could also consider giving the Pals some land of thier own in order to deflect some on the Arab hate in order to allow the Arabs to hate on each other. The struggle within Islam is a great motivator and an Achilles heel to the Arabs. Use the hate to divide and conquer. Vote Bivenator in 08

I'm with Howard. Not enough time/history/experience/etc. with new Iraqi mini-state governments to have any aid we give them stop Iran from rolling in post haste. Hell, Iran's already operating in Iraq.

JP

Then you haven't been paying attention. I've been saying basically the same thing for a long time.

Sorry about that. Most of the time your posts are surrounded by fastpaster's, and since he is on most people's troll/ignore list, it's tough to follow what is being said.

now sing with a zing! And a double one at that!

It's been a good Thursday, all-round. :D

JP

Re: Re: Re: 9/11.....8/10????????
 

Someone mentioned one religion, I mentioned another. I have no issue with either, my post illustrated the "wrongness" of both statements.

Really, I should not have to explain the obvious.