Time for some racial profiling...

[Chocaholic]

A few years ago, a man of ME origin presents himself at an airport, sweating and nervous, with a fuse sticking out of his shoe. Ever since that time, there have probably been 50 million shoes X-ray'd (or more). What good has that done?

Friday evening, my 71 year old mother-in-law (of Alabama origin) presents herself at an airport and had to throw away $175 worth of various liquids and potions in a Louis Vuitton satchel when she went through security on a weekend trip to Vegas. She was obviously not a high-risk passenger. But...it's ok to pack this stuff in your checked baggage. What's to stop a bad guy from packing a vile of something volatile in checked baggage and detonate from his seat on the plane with a remote control? Seems to me, this whole exercise is for the sole purpose of giving passengers the illusion of security, and nothing more.

One of these days, a terrorist will present at the airport with a vile of something inserted up his ass. We can only imagine the knee-jerk response to that one!

[StevoRocket]

Agreed - total overreaction as usual - like stopping you taking a nail file on a plane

These are the British Government just downgraded panic measures....

Following the Joint Terrorist Analysis Centre's decision to lower the UK threat level from Critical to Severe, the following aviation security measures will apply at all UK airports with immediate effect.

These arrangements apply to all passengers starting their journey at a UK airport and to those transferring from international flights at a UK airport.

Each passenger is permitted to carry ONE item of cabin baggage through the airport security search point. The dimensions of this item must not exceed: a maximum length of 45 cm, width of 35 cm and depth of 16 cm (17.7"×13.7"×6.2" approx) (including wheels, handles, side pockets etc.). Other bags, such as handbags, may be carried within the single item of cabin baggage. All items carried by passengers will be x-ray screened.

No liquids of any type are permitted through the airport security search point, other than the following items:

* Prescription medicines in liquid form sufficient and essential for the flight (e.g. diabetic kit), as long as verified as authentic
* Baby milk and liquid baby food (the contents of each bottle or jar must be tasted by the accompanying passenger).

NOTE: The definition of liquids includes gels, pastes, lotions, liquid/solid mixtures and the contents of pressurised containers, e.g. toothpaste, hair gel, drinks, soups, syrups, perfume, deodorant, shaving foam, aerosols, etc.

To help their progress through search points, passengers are encouraged not to include items capable of containing liquids (e.g. bottles, flasks, tubes, cans, plastic containers etc.) in their cabin baggage.

All laptops and large electrical items (e.g. large hairdryer) must be removed from the bag and placed in a tray so that such items neither obscure nor are obscured by the bag.

Pushchairs and walking aids are permitted but must be x-ray screened. Wheelchairs are permitted but must be thoroughly searched.

In addition to the above, passengers boarding flights to the USA and items they are carrying, including those acquired after the central screening point, will be subjected to secondary search at the gate. Any liquids discovered will be removed from the passenger.

The Department for Transport will work closely with operators to introduce these new arrangements, seeking to keep disruption to passengers to a minimum. The Department will keep these measures under review.

If passengers have any questions on their travel arrangements or security in place at airports they should contact the airport or their airline.

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Lord Stevens insisted there was no operational need to carry out rigorous, highly-expensive checks on all passengers waiting to board flights at UK airports.

He said they should be targeted on young Asian men, the most likely to be suicide bombers.

The retired Metropolitan Police Commissioner said: 'I'm a white, 62-year-old, 6ft 4in suit-wearing ex-cop - do I really fit the profile of a suicide bomber? Does the young mum with three tots? The gay couple, the rugby team, the middle-aged businessman?

'No, but they are all devouring huge resources for no logistical reason whatsoever.'

see the complete article here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=400439&in_page_id=1770

[StevoRocket]

I am taking a friend and two boys to gatwick - this is what their airline says - which conflicts with the latest info above - and BAA cheif has been on TV saying they cant implement the changed rules at all airports at the same time - what a c*ck up!

Increased Security Measures Update

Following on from the heightened security measures introduced at UK airports, all First Choice Airways flights are planned to operate as normal. First Choice is currently advising all customers to travel to the airport, leaving extra time where possible.
In line with increased security measures, First Choice Airways is asking customers to minimise hand luggage on board its flights; carrying on essential items only, as follows:

* Travel documents - passports, tickets, visas
* Pocket sized wallets and purses plus contents (e.g. money, credit cards and identity cards)
* Prescribed medicines needed during the flight (medicines in liquid form may not be carried on board, unless verified as authentic)
* Glasses and sunglasses (without cases)
* Contact lenses. Please note, contact lens solution may not be carried
* For those travelling with babies: baby food, milk and sanitary items essential for the flight
* Sanitary towels and tampons
* House and car keys

All the above need to be carried in a clear plastic bag. All other hand baggage will be checked into the hold.

In particular, all electrical or battery powered items must be checked in as hold baggage. This includes: laptops, PDAs, mobile phones, MP3 players/ipods, remote controls and electrical key fobs.

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Oh! and despite the fact that nearly every family takes a camera on holiday - no-one has mentioned cameras or video recorders!

[sammyg2]

Just one more case of political correctness outweighing common sense.

We all know that old white ladies do not blow up airlines, that is done by people from the middle east. Go ahead, check the history. It's true.
But we can't search everyone from the middle east, that might offend one of the terrorists or the people who supoport the terrorists.
I say to heck with them, the people who preach political correctness, and the lawyers who flood our legal system with ridiculous discrimination lawsuits.

[Tobra]

I fail to understand why stopping and questioning people who fit the correct picture for whom you are looking is wrong. Now I suppose there was a woman with a child in the latest bunch, but primarily these are middle eastern men. When white haired latinas start hijacking planes, fine, until then, give me a break.

[cashflyer]

Originally posted by Chocaholic
Friday evening, my 71 year old mother-in-law (of Alabama origin) presents herself at an airport and had to throw away $175 worth of various liquids and potions in a Louis Vuitton satchel when she went through security on a weekend trip to Vegas.

Wasn't it earlier in the week that they made that announcement to NOT have liquids and/or gels in your carry-on? Sounds to me like she's just a trouble-maker.

[Moneyguy1]

The innocent grandmother might be unwittingly be carrying the stuff and not even know it. Remember the rule: "Never leave your luggage unattended"?

[RPKESQ]

All of these security measures are simply band aids. Every security force I've ever worked with knew and understood this. But the powers that be feel that information is best left un-said. There is no possible way to 100% secure commercial aircraft from bombs. Can't be done; so an illusion is all we'll ever get.
As far as racial profiling, that is a very slippery slope to proceed down. Where do you draw the line? What are the limits? How do we keep this in check and be able to retract it (and the lasting impressions) when the threat is over? Not so simple, this stuff.

[StevoRocket]

British Airways and Ryanair criticised BAA for not being better prepared.

BA chief executive Willie Walsh told the Daily Mirror that his company may sue the airports operator for compensation.

He said: "Since 9/11, everyone in the industry has known there might be times when extra security measures needed to be put in place. Yet when the moment struck, BAA had no plan ready to keep Heathrow functioning properly. The queues for security have wound all round the terminals like a bad dream at Disneyland."

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Tobra
I fail to understand why stopping and questioning people who fit the correct picture for whom you are looking is wrong. Now I suppose there was a woman with a child in the latest bunch, but primarily these are middle eastern men. When white haired latinas start hijacking planes, fine, until then, give me a break.

They had no problem profiling my white 12 y/o son and the white 12 y/o girl in line behind us.

Pilots.. TSA + 12 year old kids?

[ChrisBennet]

I think there is some merit to the randomness of who is searched.
Suppose you wanted to get a bomb on an airplane and you know with a name like Mohammed that you would get searched. What could you do?
You could hide it on some nuns, old men, pregnant ladies or children - someone you know wouldn't get searched. At least they wouldn't get searched if "common sense" profiling was being used instead of random searches. Random searches potentially defeats this approach.
-Chris

[Tobra]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
The innocent grandmother might be unwittingly be carrying the stuff and not even know it. Remember the rule: "Never leave your luggage unattended"?

Thats right, like in the crappy remake of Oceans 11 where the guy slips a cell phone surreptitiously into his ex-wife's pocket. I find it unlikely that someone could slip a pint of liquid into a Nun's habit and not have her notice.

Interesting to me is the fact that they did the "liquid explosive" thing years ago and still this was below the radar.

[cashflyer]

It's time for us, as Americans, to be responsible for our own security. Every real American should be packing heat as a deterrent to crime. And I say we should each randomly search other passengers while waiting to board an aircraft.

I'm starting with the chicks with big hoots!




But seriously.... I feel that the terrorists do not need to "act" to destroy air commerce. All they need to do is spread rumors and then the government/HSA/TSA and airlines will accomplish the destruction all on their own.

[StevoRocket]

And 10,000 bags have gone missing at Thiefrow (Heathrow) - with the following contents which were not allowed on flights.....

Car keys
house keys
laptops
cameras
PDA's
Ipods
Mp3 players
CD players
Hairdryers
Expensive perfume

etc etc

[artplumber]

The thing about liquids has been known for quite a while. Still requires chemicals that one would not ingest. China has been screening liquids for some time (after the other guy who tried it in the So Pacific).

One wonders if the TSA is bumbling in a planned sort of way. Recognizing the holes, leaving them open or partially open, letting the terrorists work on breaking through (while hoping to catch them), then closing the loophole. OK that's a bit of a reach.

[Mike Feinstein]

Flew from Greenville, SC to Orange County yesterday on Delta. For the first time in 10+ years, I had to check my rolling bag because I was packing the likes of toothpaste, lotion, shaving cream. Yep, I'll admit it...I'm an outlaw.

Got to Orange County and guess what. No bag. Didn't make it. Bag finally showed up at my hotel at 10am today (the next day). When I'd called to check on status, the baggage person suggested that I should FedEx my dop-kit to ensure that this doesn't happen again. Lovely.

Flying will be a royal PITA for those of us who spend a lot of time in the air. I'd feel better about it if it made even a little bit of difference. This sucks.

Hey cash...looks like we may be neighbors (sort of).

[cashflyer]

Originally posted by artplumber
One wonders if the TSA is bumbling in a planned sort of way... OK that's a bit of a reach.

You may be giving them a little too much credit.
From what I've seen, there are no rocket surgeons in that labor pool.

Originally posted by Mike Feinstein
Flew from Greenville, SC ...
Hey cash...looks like we may be neighbors (sort of).

Yeah... it looks that way! Your profile says you are a NE GA resident. Whadda you doing over on my side of the border?

[dagriff]

The point in searching children is that these nut cases have no compunction in sacrificing their own, or anyone else's children.
Also what makes you think bombers could never old people?
Young terrorist get older.

[Mike Feinstein]

Originally posted by cashflyer
Yeah... it looks that way! Your profile says you are a NE GA resident. Whadda you doing over on my side of the border?

I live on Lake Hartwell...first exit into GA. Much closer to Greenville than Atlanta and GSP is a much more pleasant airport to deal with!