Long Range Sharps

tabs · 08-20-2006, 02:08 PM

These rifles don't come up for sale very often, as there were only 250 made back in the day. The rifle is an 1878 Long Range Sharps Rifle in 45/100. This is a true 1000 yard Target Rifle. The 1878 had the strongest action of any of the Sharps Rifles, and was designed by Hugo Borchardt..better known for designing the first successfull Semi-auto pistol the predecessor to the Luger. The 1878 Sharps was competivily used in Shooting Matchs till long after its day was done with the advent of Smokless Powder Cartridges in the early 1900s. If one wants to learn more about Sharps Rifles the formost book on the subject was written by Frank Sellers and titled "The Sharps Rifle"

This rifle is offered by Monty Whitley for $32000.00 Whitley is a well known East Coast Antique Gun Dealer. He often has stuff to drool over. http://www.montywhitley.com/antique_arms_fine_sporting_guns/antique_collector_longarms/1109

FrayAdjacent911 · 03:22 PM

Does it look kinda like this?

This is a repro made by Pedersoli in Italy. It's a great rifle. I load black powder cartridges with cast lead bullets, lubed with my own concoction. I've only shot it out to 300 yards, but it's pretty stupid accurate. The double set triggers are nice, it can be set to break at just a couple ounces when set.

If I had everything I needed, and plenty in the bank, a REAL Sharps would be very nice to have.

ETA, yeah, that's a Borschardt patter rifle... falling block but internal hammer. Very nice. Even has the sight base on the buttstock for extreme long range shooting from a very odd laying-on-your-back position. The .45-100 would reach 1000 yards easily, and would probably be pretty accurate out to 12 or 1300 yards.

Jared at Pelican Parts · 08-20-2006, 04:32 PM

isnt that the Quigley rifle?

FrayAdjacent911 · 08-20-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jared Fenton
isnt that the Quigley rifle?

The one Tabs linked to, or mine?

Well, neither are the 'Quigley' model.

The Quigley has a straight (carbine style) buttstock with a patchbox on it, and a 34" full octagonal barrel. Mine has a shotgun style (with the pistol grip) buttstock, and a 34" 1/3 octagon barrel. You can kinda tell from the picture, right in front of the foregrip is where it changes to a round profile. Saves a little bit of weight... but the whole thing still comes in at just shy of 13lb. It helps to eat up the recoil.

jdm61 · 08-20-2006, 04:54 PM

was the Quigley rifle a 45/100 or one of the longer cartridges? I like the replica of the Rigby muzzle loading 45 target rifle.

FrayAdjacent911 · 08-20-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdm61
was the Quigley rifle a 45/100 or one of the longer cartridges? I like the replica of the Rigby muzzle loading 45 target rifle.

The Quigley was a .45-115, using a 540gr paper patch bullet.

I haven't tried paper patching... it would be interesting, but I think lubing is easier.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Now we're talkin' another one of my favorite subjects. Never owned a Sharpes but they were the rifle of the day for sure. The Shiloh company is still in business, BTW, and a new one can be had for a few thousand although there will likely be a wait list. I shoot 1000 yd matches three times a year and started with the 45-90 albeit not a Sharpes. Most of us shoot Winchester High Wall replicas. Casting your own bullets is THE only way to go for accuracy.

Can't recall the Quigley cal. but I think it was some kinda strange bottle neck round...Have not watched the movie in some time.

FrayAdjacent911 · 08-20-2006, 05:40 PM

Mark,

If you check out the movie, he states is a 115 grain cartridge with a 540gr paper patch bullet. It's a straight walled case, so it only makes sense it's a .45-115.

The Shiloh rifles are great rifles, works of art! I think you can get a lower end plain Long Range Express for around $2k. Their wait time has gone down significantly, the last I heard. Otherwise there is C. Sharps, and Axtell, and a few other custom makers that make some VERY nice rifles.

Given I can't afford anything like that, I picked up a Pedersoli from Cabela's on sale for $1199 (now $1399). Picked up a Heilman Soule long range sight for about half of what MVA and other name brand sights go for, and it's a VERY good sight!

It's marked in MOA increments given a 36" sight radius.

The Pedersoli rear sight was sadly very lacking. Given the quality of the rifle, I was surprised they bothered to include such a crappy sight.

The front sight is not bad, but eventually, I'd like one with a built in level. Heilman makes a great one, again, for about half the cost of MVA stuff.

I might also cut a couple inches off of my barrel to try to get it down to legal weight for Silhouette. I'll have the opportunity to shoot more silhouette than long range, so I won't miss the extra barrel length.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Matt,

Yes, Peds are nice rifles for sure and much better than most Italian guns I've seen. Better steel and better fit/finish. I have seen C.Sharpes and wouldn't own one but Axtell is gorgeous..but very expensive.

For a wonderful front sight look into Baldwin. The level is on the inside of the tunnel and is not affected by ambient light...a real bother when shooting in different sun angles. I have his sights front and rear. The Soule is of wider stock and has bigger numbers for my aging eyes.

www.baldwin-sights.com/

I shoot silhouette monthly and find it harder than the 1000 yd. stuff...go figure. Most of us have gone to 38-50 or 38-70 for softer recoil of late but I still have my Cody Ballard High Wall 45-90. If you are not already on the BP-L you should at least lurk for good info. Email me off list for more info.

FrayAdjacent911 · 08-20-2006, 06:19 PM

That's not a bad price for the front sight. I think the Heilman sight does basically the same thing, the level is inside the sight tube. I think it's around the same price.

My rear sight doesn't have the different apertures, but I can screw out the eye peice and replace it if I wanted.

Unfortunately, I haven't shot the rifle in over a year. Other things on my plate combined with tight finances...

OTOH, I do have all the stuff I need to cast and load my own cartridges. I'm using a 1880 profile 530gr round nose, I think it's a Lyman die. Works great, and it's apparently very accurate sitting over 67gr of FFg GOEX compressed a little bit. Very consistent.

I think I am on the Yahoo BP list, I used to also get on the Shiloh boards. I learned a ton over there and have applied most of it successfully.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

There's two friends I have in Kerrville who NEED to get back into silhouette. Do you shoot in New Braunfels? They both have Browning High Walls.

FrayAdjacent911 · 08-20-2006, 06:33 PM

I haven't been to any matches, although I've heard about the matches in New Braunfels. There's a group that's a little closer in Columbus. Both are still over an hour drive from where I live.

I think I'll get more casting in this winter, and make sure my loads are good, then try to hit some of the silhouette matches in the spring. I'll have a more efficient car then, so that will help!

FrayAdjacent911 · 08-20-2006, 06:34 PM

Another good thing is, I have a buddy that's about to buy a Sharps style rifle. Might have someone to go to matches with in the future!

Jeff Higgins · 08-20-2006, 07:15 PM

Beautiful rifle there, tabs. I can't believe a Borchardt is fetching $32k today unless it has some verifiable match history. I passed up a similar rifle about ten years ago for $1300.00 because I thought it was too much. My how times change. I currently have a J.P. Lower stamped military carbine out for refurb; got that one for $300.00...

O.k. folks, let's clear a few things up about these rifles and their chamberings. These have been a passion of mine for my entire adult (?) life. I have studied them and have shot them competitively for over 20 years. My current match rifles include an original Ballard Pacific in .45-2.1, a C. Sharps Arms model '75 Sharps in .45-2.1, and a C. Sharps Arms model '74 in .45-2.6. Not to brag myself up, but more to list some (admittedly rather dubious) qualifications, there is not a BPCR match in Washington, Oregon, or British Columbia that I have not won over those last 20 years. Mid range (out to 600 yards) or long range (out to 1,000 yards), I have been very active in this sport. Anyway, on to some clarification.

The Quigley rifle was a model '74 Sharps, 34" octagaon barrel, military buttstock, .45-2 7/8 chamber. It did not have a carbine buttstock, those are distinctly different. They had a round heel where rifles had a sharp heel. Carbines never had the carry-over patch box; that indicates a converted '63 percussion Sharps left over from the Civil War (Colonal Berdan's "Sharps Shooters" gave rise to the bastardized term "sharp shooter" still used today).

The chamberings of these rifles were listed as two numbers, the caliber of the bore and the length of the case. That was important information to help the rifleman determine what would fit his arm. The .45's for instance were listed as .45-2.1, .45-2.4, .45-2.6, and .45-2 7/8. Those are the numbers you will see actually stamped on these rifles. Upside down on the right barrel flat, so a right-hander carrying one at port arms can just flip it up and read it. These are refered to today as the.45-70, .45-90, .45-100, and .45-110. These new numbers serve as both the chambering designation and the cartridge designation. Back then these two designations were seperate and different, and far more descriptive than today.

Common cartridges for these chamberings included the .45-55-400 and .45-70-500 in the 2.1" length, for instance. This told you the powder charge and bullet weight, with the case length listed seperately. With black powder and pretty much pure lead as the common denominator in all rifle cartridges, this gave a clear indication of the expected power from any given cartridge. .45-550-100 could have been in either a 2.4" or 2.6" case; one had to pay attention.

The Borchardt in question is listed as a ".45-100". At the late date in the Sharps company's history in which this was produced, that would have been the 2.4" case. The 2.4" superceded the 2.6" very early on, say 1873-74 or so, and very few Sharps rifles were chambered in the longer 2.6" case. It is the rarest of original Sharps chamberings. Interestingly, the 2.4" and 2.6" were both loaded with 100 grains of black powder and 550 grain paper patched bullet, and to the exact same o.a.l. The 2.4" simply gripped less of the bullet.

Anyway, these things are great good fun to play with. They are a real challenge to compete with, and far more interesting than today's .300 super short fat eargeschpitzenloudenboomer ultra mags. Fun to shoot matches with, and gratifying to hunt with. I've killed everything from mulies to bear to caribou to prairie goats with these things. Just too much fun...

charleskieffner · 08-20-2006, 08:29 PM

AH HA!...............................YOU DO SHOOT LONG RANGE! LOL!

tabs · 08-21-2006, 12:53 PM

If U watch the Auctions across the country, you can sometimes pick up a used Shiloh Sharps on the Cheap.

Another fav is the 71/84 Mauser in 11mm or .43 Caliber.

Try shooting a Paper Cartridge Sharps...now that is fun. I have a very early Farmingdale New Model 1863 Rifle in 54 cal....bought that Used back in early 1980, for $275.00. 3 Digit serial #.

Jeff Higgins · 08-21-2006, 06:58 PM

Of course I shoot long range; what else is there? Mine just take longer to get there... You should try pulling targets when highpower and BPCR share range time at 1,000 yards. The difference in impact is impressive. A 530-550 grain .45 hits very noticabley harder at that range than a 168-200 grain .30, no matter what launched it. On a calm day we will generally hold the 9 ring on the long range target. Peep sights, black powder, and lead bullets; most guys with scoped highpower bull guns have a hard time keeping up. A seasoned shooter will beat us handily, but we can usually impress the average Joe.

The paper cartridge Sharps is kind of fun. A buddy had one from his dad's collection that he had no idea what to do with. His dad had a mould in a box labelled for it, so I cast a bunch up from pure lead (that damn hollow base is sure a PIA) and tried to figure out how to make paper cartridges. Found the nitrited paper from Dixie Gun works and went to town. While it was fun, it sure was a lot of work, so we eventually shot is as a muzzle loader, only opening the breech to clean it. It was the original .52 caliber. Boy, make sure you wear heavy long sleeves if you plan on lighting one of these off, too. The breech does not seal all that well, and it spits more gas than any gun I have ever seen.