President Admits To Secret CIA Prisons/Flights

[jyl]

The President now admits that there were indeed secret CIA prisons and secret CIA rendition flights.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5321606.stm

http://voanews.com/english/2006-09-06-voa47.cfm

I recall OT members strenously denying that such things existed.

The takeaway, to me, is that whatever secret thing the government is alleged to be doing, you may assume they are indeed doing it unless a high-ranking government official (a Cabinet officer or higher, not some sacrificial flunky) is placed under oath and unambigiously denies it under penalty of perjury.

I don't personally have a strong feeling about whether CIA prisons are a good or bad thing, but I think they should operate with some degree of oversight.

[singpilot]

John;

If anyone in here denied those flights, it's because they know not of what they speak, and they were as clueless as the people for who this is now news.

There are far more important things that are news and deserve your attention.

[Seahawk]

Do you know what pisses me off? During SERE school, I was WATER BOARDED.

And there were DOGS!!!

The new guidelines forbid all torture, the use of dogs to intimidate prisoners, water boarding - the practice of submerging prisoners in water - any kind of sexual humiliation, and many other interrogation techniques.

The sexual humiliation I won't discuss, what happens in SERE, stays in SERE

[dd74]

Yes, civil war in Iraq, for instance.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Oh yea, it's because they "hate our freedom".

And of course the Iraq mess is a "continuation of the War on Terror". (insert pukey icon)

The timing of this is to maximize taking advantage of the 5-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks and get the attention off the administration's pathetic record on domestic issues and the escalating civil war in Iraq. They're doing everything possible to maximize distraction and run out the clock on the administration before people collectively realize (or get off their asses to do something about it) what a mess we're in as a result of this idiot having been in office.

Anyone who can't see that must have duct tape over their eyes. . .

[Rodeo]

My takeaway is this: When the secret prisons were exposed by the Washington Post (for which it won a Pulitzer Prize), the usual cries of "traitor" came from the administration. This was, after all, was secret information, and the Post's reporting hurt our national interests in some unspecified manner.

Now, with mid-terms looming, and the Repubs in trouble, the administration believes it is good politics to discuss the secret prisons, so it for the first time admits their existence (yes, for the first time, singpilot).

Once again, the Bush admin plays politics with the classification system, both classifying and "de-classifying" for reasons having nothing to do with national security, and everything to do with politics.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Anyone who can't see that must have duct tape over their eyes. . .

Isn't duct tape over the eyes a CIA-approved torture tactic?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Glad SOMEONE caught that reference. . .

[kach22i]

Originally posted by dd74
Isn't duct tape over the eyes a CIA-approved torture tactic?

Old school my boy, they use Tyvek tape now from what I've been hearing.

[jyl]

Gorilla tape was developed by the CIA.

[singpilot]

The suicide belt was the invention of Hamas.

Using box cutters to slit the throat of a flight attendant in front of the passengers to get the pilots to open the cockpit door was the invention of AlQuieda.

The shoe bomber...

The boom-box PanAm 747 in Ireland...

The US Embassy in Mogadishu....

Khobar towers....

The USS Cole.....

Oh, right.... 9/11......




How quickly some people forget.

It's uncivilized, it's ugly.. Yes, it's war. Get used to it. No one that is complaining how this war is being waged overseas has become comitted to winning it yet.

May take a few more thousand liberals' deaths on their own home soil to convince them that this is a fight to the death.

[jdm61]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Do you know what pisses me off? During SERE school, I was WATER BOARDED.

And there were DOGS!!!

The new guidelines forbid all torture, the use of dogs to intimidate prisoners, water boarding - the practice of submerging prisoners in water - any kind of sexual humiliation, and many other interrogation techniques.

The sexual humiliation I won't discuss, what happens in SERE, stays in SERE

dude.......being forced to tip ugly stripppers in Phenix City or Fayetteville does NOT constitute sexual humiliation........at least not in the official sense. I am quite bothered by the President's revelations today. Want to know what bothers me the most of all? That Kahlid Sheik Mohammed is still drawing breath and being fed and housed at my expense.....THAT is what bothers me!!!!!!!

[dd74]

Originally posted by singpilot
Using box cutters to slit the throat of a flight attendant in front of the passengers to get the pilots to open the cockpit door was the invention of AlQuieda.

Al Queda invented box cutters? Resourceful bunch, aren't they?

No one that is complaining how this war is being waged overseas has become comitted to winning it yet.

I think it's more like: no one committed to how this war is being waged overseas is complaining that theyhave not won it yet.

[Moneyguy1]

Wow.

Even Glenn Beck said today we should be fighting to win rather than fighting simply not to lose. When do we start? When to we reinstitute the draft? When do we cut back on the tax cuts so we can more properly fund the Military and replace the equipment lost to date in the ME? When do we bring home to the American public that that this struggle requires individual sacrifice? Without sacrifice, this is strictly a video war, disconnected from reality for all but those directly affected by the loss of a loved one, or the simple fact that a loved one is 11,000 miles away.

sing...sadly, the "few more thousand liberal's deahs" will not simply be liberals. There will be no discrimination between liberals, conservatives, and children who are not political.

Incidentially, all the methods mentioned used to kill are far from new. Just different applications.

[jdm61]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Glad SOMEONE caught that reference. . .

Hey....at least OUR prisoners still have a HEAD around which we can wrap duct tape

[jyl]

Originally posted by singpilot
John;

If anyone in here denied those flights, it's because they know not of what they speak, and they were as clueless as the people for who this is now news.

There are far more important things that are news and deserve your attention.

Did a quick search.

Island911 called the media stories about CIA prisons a "fabrication".

And what's amazing is Priest won the Pulitzer Prize for "reporting" what was a fabrication. No backing up facts . .just passing along a (hopefully damaging) fabrication. Traitor caught leaking classified

914GT said the stories about secret CIA prisons were simply a "sting" meant to entrap leakers within the government.

The evidence is beginning to indicate that the secret prison story was part of a CIA sting operation to uncover the people leaking to the press. This is supported by the European Union finding no evidence of these prisons, however since they are a bunch of idiots, they could have missed them as well. The cockroaches are starting to scurry under the lights now, with connections appearing between McCarthy, Richard Clarke, Joe Wilson, Valerie Plame, and the New York Times. same link as above

Joeaksa said there was no proof that CIA planes were carrying anyone but flight crew and non-prisoner passengers.

And while we are at it, how about some proof that there actually was anyone other than the flight crew onboard the planes? Overflights are one thing, while actually flying someone in the back is another.

Oh yea, its legal to fly people in planes the last time I looked (I did it yesterday, hope its legal) so please prove that any pax were prisoners while you are at it. UK Quizzes US on CIA Flights

Those of you with better search skills can probably find more.

Sorry guys, lots of you carried the Administration's water on this one.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Rodeo
My takeaway is this: When the secret prisons were exposed by the Washington Post (for which it won a Pulitzer Prize), the usual cries of "traitor" came from the administration. This was, after all, was secret information, and the Post's reporting hurt our national interests in some unspecified manner.

Now, with mid-terms looming, and the Repubs in trouble, the administration believes it is good politics to discuss the secret prisons, so it for the first time admits their existence (yes, for the first time, singpilot).

Once again, the Bush admin plays politics with the classification system, both classifying and "de-classifying" for reasons having nothing to do with national security, and everything to do with politics.

Traitor was indeed an apt description for those who released classified info described above. Now that the cat is long out of the bag....it is obviously something different. Of course the administration uses information to benefit our side and hurt the enemy...it is their job......the problem is with those who do the opposite and release information to damage our country and benefit the enemy (traitor).

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Wow.

Even Glenn Beck said today we should be fighting to win rather than fighting simply not to lose. When do we start? When to we reinstitute the draft? When do we cut back on the tax cuts so we can more properly fund the Military and replace the equipment lost to date in the ME? When do we bring home to the American public that that this struggle requires individual sacrifice? Without sacrifice, this is strictly a video war, disconnected from reality for all but those directly affected by the loss of a loved one, or the simple fact that a loved one is 11,000 miles away.

sing...sadly, the "few more thousand liberal's deahs" will not simply be liberals. There will be no discrimination between liberals, conservatives, and children who are not political.

Incidentially, all the methods mentioned used to kill are far from new. Just different applications.

Unfortunately is is not that simple. What help would a draft be? We have plenty of troops to kill anyone we please...but just who should we kill? The problem is more the identification of the enemy and the fact that we must handle them with "kid gloves" to appease liberals. What would really help would be if our press did not give the terrorist every indication that their tactics are not a complete success and that the US is ready to "cut and run."

I agree with your statement "sadly, the "few more thousand liberal's deahs" will not simply be liberals." It is too bad that others will also pay the price for liberal treachery.

[Moneyguy1]

Once again, the label of "liberal" is used, blaming all the evils of the country on these poor maligned souls and marginalize anyone who disagrees. Can someone please give a rational definition of a modern "liberal" and "conservative" without the usual jingoism posted here? I think that most posters here are patriots in their own right and would do whatever their country asked of them in time of peril. Labels prove nothing and are designed only to drive wedges. Isn't that precisely what our enemies want? Divide and conquer; that is their modus oporendi. Weaken us by making us fight amongst ourselves. That would make them very happy.

Truth is, the existence of these facilities was denied. Now there is an admission they exist. I do not judge the goodness or badness of them, since we must use every method at our disposal. It is the "flip-flop" I find disconcerting. Had the public been told: "We have prison facilities in other countries where some of our enemies are currently being held." Simple. I would think that our current president would have learned from Nixon and Clinton that stonewalling creates more problems than it solves.

If the draft were re-instituted, perhaps the continual extension of tours of duty would not be necessary. Just perhaps, had more troops been available in the first place, we would not have the internal insurrection that exists in Iraq.

Treachery is a strong word. A bad word, designed to spread hate. A word used by totalitarian states to retain control through fear and mistrust. And that's too bad. America is more than that and deserves better from its citizens, one toward another.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
... Labels prove nothing and are designed only to drive wedges. Isn't that precisely what our enemies want? Divide and conquer; that is their modus oporendi. Weaken us by making us fight amongst ourselves. That would make them very happy...

Clearly they have already been successful...based on polls and posts here...it appears that few Americans support our efforts and many post outright support for terrorists here. Clearly, the ones creating division in this country are on the left.

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
...Truth is, the existence of these facilities was denied. Now there is an admission they exist. I do not judge the goodness or badness of them, since we must use every method at our disposal. It is the "flip-flop" I find disconcerting. Had the public been told: "We have prison facilities in other countries where some of our enemies are currently being held." Simple. I would think that our current president would have learned from Nixon and Clinton that stonewalling creates more problems than it solves...

Of course it was...their existence was classified. That usually means it is a "secret." Obviously if the enemy knows we have certain captives and are interrogating them, they will change locations and tactics to make our intel less valuable. The press divulging this info cost the lives of US citizens (soldiers).

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
...If the draft were re-instituted, perhaps the continual extension of tours of duty would not be necessary. Just perhaps, had more troops been available in the first place, we would not have the internal insurrection that exists in Iraq. ...

If you reinstitue the draft, what will you pay them with? We are already significantly involutarily cutting the number of volunteer troops so we can afford to buy equipment. Why would we want more conscripts while cutting trained personnel? More troops only make the problem worse...and provide the enemy more targets. Once again, we can and do kill all the enemy we identify...unfortunately the cowards hide among women and children.