Cutlery (with pic goodness)

[Overpaid Slacker]

There was a thread a coupla weeks ago on cutlery, and I had no idea where my camera was. Well, lucky you. I found it.

The Arsenal (most of it, anyway)


Three Kikuichi knives -- Chef's, Nikiri and Yo Deba. All virgin carbon steel (no stainless, no recycled Hyundais). Gorgeous masterpieces from a company that began making swords 800 years ago:


Dione Lucas slicer (made in Japan in the Sujihiki style; it's stainless, but a great knife nonetheless), Solingen carbon skinner (great sammich knife), probably made by Kullenberg.
Sabatier bread knife -- handles anything easily, and I actually prefer stainless for bread knives.


The MAC family. If you're going to buy stainless knives, buy MAC. They take and keep an edge like nothing else. Nikiri (top), cheese, non-stick chef's knife, and santoku. I can't say enough good about MAC. Unbeatable value for the money.


Top is a Solingen carbon slicer (made by CS&Co). I don't have a good picture of this one, but it is gorgeous.
MAC Yanagiba slicer (see MAC comments above.)
Foster #10 paring cleaver. j/k. It's huge, and very well-balanced. Maybe b/c of the enormous handle.


And the Kyocera ceramics that arrived this week:


I'm looking at a Kikuichi Damascus paring knife... which will be the last knife purchase for the year if I pull the trigger.

Anyhoo, that's how exciting things are up here in the 'Cuse. I'm taking pix of cutlery and posting for y'all.

I rock.

Then again, it must not be too crazy where you are, b/c you're looking at pictures of someone else's cutlery.

We rock.

JP

[livi]

Would that fall into the category of fetishism ?

Or is there actually a specific need for each and everyone of those knives ?

[Overpaid Slacker]

Yes. To both.

I suppose you could get by with one 6" chef's or santoku-style knife... like you could get by with a single adjustable wrench, instead of box wrenches, open-ended wrenches, oil line wrenches, and sockets... each in a full SAE and metric complement, of course.

But if you didn't have to, why would you?

One of the reasons I love the Japanese stuff is they put a heck of a lot of thought into the design of a knife to a specific function.

JP

[masraum]

Send me half of your knives, then you can have the pleasure of building your collection again. I'm just trying to help.

[masraum]

Definitely, I'm no master chef, but even I know that different knives excel at different things. I just can't get any good knives, because I'd end up having to kill some of my family.

[Overpaid Slacker]

Steve -- LMAO!

Get yourself one really sweet knife that you love, and keep it under lock and key when you're not using it.

I'd strongly suggest a Kikuichi chef's knife. PM me if you want a lead on one. But if you want something lower-maintenance that a blade you have to wipe down after each use and hand wash, I'm impressed by the Ken Onion Shun Chef's knife and slicer. The Chef's knife you can pick up for ~100 on ebay, and the 9" slicer that just came out a few weeks ago is also spectacular. And gorgeous. I'd buy either or both of those knives just to display, frankly.

aside: do you know how freaking hard it is to take good pictures of knives? Well, it turns out to be really freaking hard... or I just suck w/ a camera. Maybe both.

edit - I realized that the ceramics look huge; the santoku has a 5.5" blade, and the parer is 3".

JP

[Overpaid Slacker]

I forgot one -- and it's useful as *****!!!

"Lettuce" knife -- but it's great for cutting anything you don't want sticking to the knife, especially if it's in a nonstick pan that you don't want to scratch. $6.



Zyliss makes some great stuff. And it's a lot easier to get a decent picture of than the shiny steel.

JP

[tabs]

Originally posted by Overpaid Slacker


One of the reasons I love the Japanese stuff is they put a heck of a lot of thought into the design of a knife to a specific function.

JP

Yes like chopping up bodies and such.

[CowboyKyle]

I have been looking (obviously in not the right places) for a single edge (I assume carbon steel) sushi knife. Any recommendations? please keep in mind I am not independently weathly and can only get management approval for a reasonably priced knife!

[Overpaid Slacker]

Kyle -

If you have the faith in your commitment to taking care of carbon steel, it will reward you. However, if you (or someone else) is going to use the knife and not wipe it down after each use, it will discolor -- which is not a big deal at all. however, it will also rust if you neglect it.

So, bearing that in mind, if you want carbon, check ebay, which is where I find a lot of my stuff. In fact, if you buy a knife that's a few decades old, not only is the steel better, but it'll be a fraction of the cost of a new run-of-the mill stainless Wusthof or Henckels.

If you want a single-sided sushi knife, search around for MAC. They're a great knife, and they make dedicated, single edge sushi knives for a reasonable price. They're stainless, so they require much less TLC, but I still wouldn't recommend putting them in the dishwasher.

Good luck and keep me posted with what you wind up with.

Best,

JP

[jdm61]

Stainless SUCKS!!!!! discoloring of carbon blades merely shows that yo love them enough to use them regularly. Try sharpening a stainless blade, even a goodone like a Henckels once it gets dull enough to not repsond to the steel anymore. Sometimes even a pro can't get it back to where it was when it was new. That happened to my brother with a couple of top shelf Henckels knives. Many restaurants use stainless throwaway blades that you get a Sams or Costco. Now try that with a high carbon blade. 5 or so strokes on each side with a good stone and you are back in business IF the blade has been properly heat treated.......which all of the ones i make have been If not, they are thrown away......suffice to say that a lot of mine have gone to the landfill because i am still pretty new at this.....lol By the way......my understanding is that the sushi knives that the top traditional Japanese chefs back in the old country use are hand forged carbon steel done the old fashioned way and cost well over $1000 for the set. Just like good hand forged custom knives cost over here. And they are sharpened to within an inch of their lives on fine grit water stones.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Overpaid Slacker
Yes. To both.

I suppose you could get by with one 6" chef's or santoku-style knife... like you could get by with a single adjustable wrench, instead of box wrenches, open-ended wrenches, oil line wrenches, and sockets... each in a full SAE and metric complement, of course.

But if you didn't have to, why would you?

One of the reasons I love the Japanese stuff is they put a heck of a lot of thought into the design of a knife to a specific function.

JP

Tools are different than knives. Because, well, errr...never mind...

[masraum]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Tools are different than knives. Because, well, errr...never mind...

Nah, knives are tools. And these are like Snapon of Facom.

[ramonesfreak]

JP, im 60 miles west of you. things are not too exciting over here either. thanks for the pics. nice collection


--i got disoriented for a minute. thought i was posting on the sharpening thread....

[304065]

JP,

Have you tried the "Edge Pro?" I got this a few months back and I swear by it.

Unlike most commercial knife sharpening systems, the Lansky, the Crock Stick, the Yadda Yadda whatever, the "Edge Pro" had a movable STONE at a fixed angle, and the BLADE is held in a fixed position. I can't stand systems that require the operator to establish the angle of cut. With the "Edge Pro" the angle is established by the relationship between the knife and the stone, each of which are fixed. It's kind of expensive ($180) but it puts a great edge back on all my stainless knives (and my Japanese Sushi knife, which is only sharp on one side-- one slip and you can disembowel yourself if you are not careful, it's so freaking sharp).

Nice collection BTW. The cleaver is worthy of the Renaissance Festival.

[Overpaid Slacker]

The Edge Pro is fantastic... I've used it, and, if I had used it before I bought the Lanksy, it's what I would've bought. But now that I'm on to the waterstone, I'm never going back.

When I bought the waterstone, Ralph (the ebay seller) sent me a carbon steel chinese cleaver (as in, made and used in China for the last 50 years) that was in rough shape, so I could "practice" with it. Now, I use that "practice" knife for most of my chopping!

I'm glad you mentioned the Edge Pro -- it may be the best "system" for those disinclined to learn a stone.

JP

[Seric]

Damn fine collection! I am pretty happy with Wusthoff for the time being, but would love to get some Japanese stuff in the mix.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by CowboyKyle

I have been looking (obviously in not the right places) for a single edge (I assume carbon steel) sushi knife. Any recommendations?

Are there any Asian markets near you? They usually carry sushi knifes.

No where as nice as JP's collection but these manage to cut some stuff up in my kitchen.

[flatbutt]

OK seriously, why so many different knives? I have two that I use for everything. Whats with all the different shapes? Seriously, edumacate me.

[Overpaid Slacker]

flatbutt -
Well, truth be told, I could probably get along with 3-4 knives. And I have duplicates of some (a stainless MAC nikiri and a carbon steel Kikuichi Nikiri) just b/c I bought a 'better' one and kept the other one.

Further admission -- this thread (and the picture) was taken exactly 2 years ago and the collection has grown considerably since then. So, a big part of the "why" is -- I think they're cool, and much of what follows is rationalization. Alton Brown, for example, writes about how he had dozens of knives early on, but pared (snicker) back his collection later. He also writes about how you need full tangs, and absolutely must have others sharpen your knives for you, so I take some of his knife wisdom cum grano.

First of all -- the metal. The knives I started with, and can be less careful with, are stainless steel. High carbon stainless takes a good edge and won't rust easily (stainless WILL rust, as we all know). I still keep them out of the dishwasher ... as with all knives I care about... but I know if it's a frantic cooking session (or an "away" session where I'm cooking outside of my own kitchen) I can take the stainless knives and not worry about promptly wiping them down each time or some pinhead mis-using a knife of mine or using it on a glass/marble surface.

Second -- the function. The Japanese especially have put much thought and craftsmanship into making knives for specific purposes. If you use a Nikiri on leaves or light vegetables, it works better/faster than a santoku or a gyuto or other knife not purpose-built. Its thin, light blade make fast work out of leafy veggies, and you can use the side of it to transport the cuttins to the pan/salad bowl/whatever.

If you use a (properly sharpened) deba to quarter a chicken, you'll never want to use a standard 8" chef knife for that task again... it's designed to be thick and weighty in just the right way to maintain nimbleness and dexterity moving around poultry. Can you get the same job done with a cutco steak knife? Sure. I won't argue that.

The gyuto is great for tons of larger cutting (including meat ... its name means "cow sword") and simple stuff like crushing garlic or pulverizing ginger. The slicers (now I have 4... yes, it's a problem) are good for various things, depending upon the shape of the tip and the flexibility of the blade. You use a rounded tip when you don't want to get hung up on a bone and a tapered tip when you need to conduct in situ surgery.

Bread knives -- hey, why not? they're cheap. The Sabatier is just a cool old knife, good for all kinds of bread, but I confess to using a Kitchen Aid bread knife now -- greatest $20 knife going, and it cuts through muffins or peasant bread with equal aplomb. Will a razor-sharp sujihiki do that? Frankly, not as well as this Kitchen Aid bread knife. Anybody who has used this knife (for its intended purpose) buys one.

And the other specialty knives, no real 'reason', other than a fondness for cutlery -- why NOT have an excellent cheese knife? Who in their right mind doesn't want a gargantuan 4# cleaver? I mean, really?

The ceramics were a gift. I really don't turn to them much, to be honest. But I'm not going to throw them away. They're the ultimate foul condition knife -- saltwater impervious, non-bacteria retaining handles, nowhere for germs to hide -- as long as you protect the (brittle) edge.

Having said all that, I recent bought a Martin Yan Chinese Cleaver. It was made 20 (?) years ago, to his specifications. I had to be talked into it, b/c I think the guy was a tool. Suffice to say, it is an EXCELLENT cleaver, well worth every penny. It's hard g-damned stainless, but once you get an edge on it, it's scary. Having now used a real, professional Chinese Cleaver, I could probably get rid of half of my collection (or more).

Having said THAT -- my favorite knife seller sent along to me a carbon steel chinese cleaver -- meaning made in China 50+ years ago, used most of the time since, with a blade covered in patina. This was so I could practice with the waterstone. Well, this "practice" knife, examples of which he was selling for $10, is the first knife I'll reach for now if the task is within its (considerable) scope of ability.

I wish I'd taken a picture when I had the whole arsenal out for a sharpening a couple of weeks ago. But I'll still peruse my favorite knife-sellers' sites every so often, just to see what's out there. There's a small, long & thin-bladed carbon steel paring knife I've had my eye on for a while....

JP