Saw a Fatal Traffic Accident Today, Major Bummer...

speeder · speeder's Garage

I was driving on the 170 North today around 1PM when suddenly traffic went from smooth 75 mph to a pile of brake lights, as we inched ahead I saw the accident not even 100 yards ahead. A late '70s/early '80s Bronco had flipped/rolled and stopped upright on the right shoulder. That is the type of Bronco where half of the roof is removable, (over the rear seat), and the guy in the back was ejected and killed instantly. It also had big tires and a lift kit, so I guess a twitch of the wheel sprung this "death trap" on the poor guy who was a passenger.

The driver and front seat passenger were not seriously injured, just a little banged-up. I'm glad that I pulled over to assist, there was nothing to be done for the DOA but the other two were so distraught that I was afraid that the driver was going to run out into traffic or something. Not sure what his relationship to dead guy was, I did not want to ask. It was major drama on the side of the road.

The CHP and FD arrived and started an investigation immediately, I left after a little while and they were still working a couple hours later when I passed on my way home. The DB was still there, wrapped in a sheet. It was really sad, the guy was real young looking, maybe 20s. I was in a roll-over once in an early Bronco, but much slower speed, what a death-trap they are w/ big tires. Crazy.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

my best friend was killed when we were both 20. He had a raised Datsun truck with a v6 in it. He was out in the desert with other friends of mine and the truck caught fire. They put it out but the interior was gutted. They lashed his truck to my other friend's Toyota truck and he sat on a milk crate while they towed it back from the desert. Coming down a grade on I8 something went wrong and they started fishtailing. Both trucks rolled three times and my friend was thrown out then crushed on the first roll by the rollcage. I wasn't there, but got the call at 6am the next morning, then went with my other friend who was driving the Toyota to pick up their stuff from impound.

Accidents suck...I'm all about seat belts and airbags these days.

livi · 09-09-2006, 11:22 PM

Thats awful. I have seen a few trauma victims, in my line of work, over the years. In the heat of the moment, focusing on what has to be done, the emotional side tends to be shoved aside. Afterwords it all comes back to you. Its good to talk, not least with people that were involved.

Good job you stopped and lend a hand. I think most people are to scared (or what ever) and just pass by.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by livi

Good job you stopped and lend a hand. I think most people are to scared (or what ever) and just pass by.

+1

when we went down on the bike, one person stopped briefly behind the bike, didn't roll down the window or say anything, then left. No one else stopped. I know it was night on the freeway, but still...

livi · 09-09-2006, 11:54 PM

Cowardliness / survival instinct in the anonymity of the masses.

Option 1: Pass by.
Potential consequences: None.

Option 2: Stop.
Potential consequences: Being robbed. Hit by another car. Involved with police. Unpleasantly overwhelmed by the ugly sight of the accident. Late for work, date, picking up children etc.

To most people the moral dilemma is run over by the inequality of those choices, I expect.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I don't really fault people for not stopping...pretty dangerous situation. But interesting to compare that to when I flatted on the bike and every bike the came upon us stopped. That was during daylight hours though...

livi · 09-10-2006, 12:10 AM

I agree. With what the world has turned into, the potential risks are too big. Its too bad. Both for the accident victims and for those who pass by having to live with the conscience they 'should have' stopped. I really don´t blame them. I don´t.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by speeder
.... the guy in the back was ejected and killed instantly. ..

Well, maybe he died doing what he loved.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

The sad reality is if you do stop and do anything in the way of helping other than making a phone call, you're opening yourself up to a lawsuit. Yes it has happened where a "first responder" ended up getting sued later.

Such is the society we live in.

artplumber · 09-10-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
The sad reality is if you do stop and do anything in the way of helping other than making a phone call, you're opening yourself up to a lawsuit. Yes it has happened where a "first responder" ended up getting sued later.

Such is the society we live in.

That has happened in the past, but is now generally out the door with the so-called "good samaritan" laws.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Yeah, getting sued isn't a very real danger. Getting killed by a secondary accident is, though, especially in Todd's case. Being stopped on a freeway is really dangerous when traffic is still approaching @ 80 mph.

One of the reasons that I stopped w/o hesitation is that the accident was confined to the shoulder, and traffic had already slowed to a crawl going by it. Between the rubber-neck factor and the CHP on the way, there was little chance of it picking up. I have stopped in the past to help someone change a tire on the shoulder, that is the scariest thing on earth if you understand the whole "fixed object" phenomena where people will drive into what they are staring at.

You also have to use common sense when assisting strangers these days; in a chaotic or dramatic scene like a major accident you can usually just slip away w/o identifying yourself once you see that your help is not needed or futile. Nothing to do w/ being sued, I just don't want to hang out for hours unless really needed as a witness. Since I did not see the actual crash this time, no danger of that. Many different factors in play. I stopped for this one because, I was not completely sure the guy was dead, though I strongly suspected it. His friends were still hovering over him and grabbing their heads in that expression that says, "this is not good". At all.

What I actually responded to was the sight of the survivors in extreme distress, and w/o anyone to provide comfort(?) Don't know if that is even possible, but cops and bystanders never seem to know exactly what to do w/ that aspect so they don't try to help in that way. Maybe because of just seeing Miami Vice and the opening sequence on the side of freeway, I was freaked out about someone so emotionally f'ed up on the side of the road so I stopped and tried to comfort them. Not sure how much it really helped.

artplumber · 09-10-2006, 07:41 AM

+1

If it happens in front of me, I stop downstream from the accident before coming back to help.

competentone · 09-10-2006, 09:17 AM

It sounded like it was a good decision to stop at this accident.

Quote:

Originally posted by speeder
I have stopped in the past to help someone change a tire on the shoulder, that is the scariest thing on earth if you understand the whole "fixed object" phenomena where people will drive into what they are staring at.

So true; I always suggest driving on the flat tire on the shoulder to the next exit. It's better to destroy the wheel and spend the money on a new one, then end up dead or severely injured from an accident.

livi · 09-10-2006, 09:21 AM

How do you feel now, Denis ? You all right ?

speeder · speeder's Garage

Thanks for asking, I'm fine. It was sad, but the truth is that it happens thousands of times a day around the world. (People dying violently/from accidents). He died instantly, (massive trauma), it would have been much, much worse if he was still alive but mangled and suffering and you knew he was going to die. That would be the worst, I can't stand to see an animal like that. Death is really peaceful in comparison, zero suffering. Except for the driver and other passenger. That's what freaked me out. What they are going through right now. Count your blessings if you are having a good day today, I sure will!

Joeaksa · 09-10-2006, 10:20 AM

If you drive in Europe and there is an accident (at least in Holland and Germany) you have to stop unless there are others already stopped to help, its the law.

Should be the same way here. As well everyone has to have basic medical training when they get their license, as well as carry a medical kit in every car/motorcycle. We can improve on our side of the pond in light of this.

Joe

Rodeo · 09-10-2006, 10:41 AM

Sorry you had to see and deal with all that Denis, but good on you for stopping and doing what you could for the survivors.

kycarguy 935 · 09-10-2006, 11:30 AM

Good for you Denis for pulling over.

One of my best friends from high school died when he was 20 or 21 when he was driveing his new Toyota 4x4 down in Mexico on a surf trip and somehow went off a cliff. His girlfriend in the passenger seat lived and so did a few buddies in the bed of the truck.

I was on my way to a concert last Sunday and a car in front of us ran over a large puppy and broke its neck. They hit the brakes then pulled off. I pulled over and helped the little guy until he passed and then carried him off the road and set him near the peoples house that some boys said owned it.

speeder · speeder's Garage

There is a big part of me that is sort of "Wild West" in regards to laws that protect us from ourselves, ie. seatbelts and helmets and airbags, etc.., I think that we should be able to decide for ourselves what is safe. But another part of me thinks that lifted vehicles w/ huge donut tires should be illegal because they are just such death-traps. It was the passenger that got it, not the driver/owner. Something tells me that in Germany or Sweden this truck would not pass TUV laws and be licensed. And they get to drive faster there, at least in Germany.

I'll bet it was just a moment's inattention on the driver's part that caused him to over-correct, who amongst us has not jerked the wheel at some time on the freeway. Maybe someone else was changing lanes into him. Who knows(?)

I cannot find anything online about the crash; sad thing is that a single-vehicle fatal accident in L.A. county may or may not make the newspaper.
The funny thing is that when it was happening, I knew that I would have to share it and get it off my chest here. I have barely mentioned it to anyone in the "gravity world", it's not exactly great conversation material. Somehow it seems alright here, though. He was a young Latino guy. I was 2 feet away from the driver when he called his Dad and told him. They seemed like good guys. I'll be just fine, but at the same time I'm just sick about it. Not the gore, (he was in one piece), just the bummer. Know what I mean? It brings back every young person I've known who went before their time, all the way back to Dean White, a guy in my Jr. HS who died in a freak accident over the summer of '72 while riding on the back of a tractor at another friend's farm. (Tractor tipped over). Life goes on, but I still miss Dean W. after 34 years. He was a great guy. Sigh....

Hugh R · 02:17 PM

Denis, all you can do is move on. It was good of you to stop and assist. Most people wouldn't have taken the time.

One of my triplet sisters died on the way back from taking me to the airport to go to USMC boot camp 35 years ago, my other triplet sister and my younger brother were in the car as well with my still living sister's b/f driving our 66 Mustang. Slid in the rain and hit a bridge abutment and broke the car in to at the drivers side B pillar, where my sister was. Everyone was surprised that it didn't kill more of them. I got a reprieve from boot camp for about a month.