How To Purchase Class 2 Or 3 Gun?

jyl · jyl's Garage

What's involved in buying a class 2 or 3 gun? I might be using the terms wrong, I mean a short-barreled rifle or shotgun. In particular, the short-barreled M1A replica Thompson made by Kahr: 10.5" barrel, but semi-auto.

nota · 09-29-2006, 09:31 PM

class 3 is FULL AUTO
MACHINE GUN!!!!

but the dealers licence is not real hard to get
you just got to jump thru hoops
and pay the fees

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html

Eric Coffey · 09-29-2006, 09:44 PM

Find the nearest Class III dealer and have them walk you through it. Even if you find a gun out of state, it will have to be transferred to you through a class III dealer (not just any FFL holder). I believe it is fairly straight forward though, with just a few more requirements than a typical firearms purchase. For example, I think you will need a signature from your local Police Sherriff/Chief. There is also an additional fee (tax) of like $200 if I remember as well.

Joeaksa · 09-29-2006, 09:50 PM

John,

If the rifle is semi-auto, you can buy it without any hassle and only the usual background check. Class 3 is full rock and roll (automatic) and then you have a lot more hoops to jump through and more money.

Getting your dealers license is not anywhere like it was a few years ago and now you almost have to have an actual store to have a license.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

The only reason you need a dealers license is to obtain class 3 weapons which were made after 1986. Pre-1986 weapons, you need the gun transferred by a class 3 FFL, get a bunch of back ground checks, signoff by the chief and pay the transfer fee.

id10t · 09-30-2006, 04:43 AM

No such thing as class 2. Find a dealer in your state. You'll need a few sets of finger prints, some photos, sign off from your county sherrif (unless you form a LLC to buy), and 200 for the tax stamp.

Edit - that m1a is a SBR - short barrel rifle. Same proceedure, but I think the special tax stamp is just $5. You can even make SBRs yourself, just get the paperwork done.

Joeaksa · 09-30-2006, 05:39 AM

John,

Unless you are getting a class 3 weapon, you DO NOT need a signoff from anyone, tax stamp or to pay any funds.

You said above that you are interested in buying a semi-auto rifle, and all you need to do is to go to a gunshop, fill out the paper and pay for the weapon. Believe that there may be a small fee for the BS ATF background check but thats it.

Kinda confused on what you are looking for. The M1A is a semi-automatic rifle with a 20" or longer barrel, its not made with a 10" barrel nor would anyone want to fire this weapon with a cut down barrel. Recoil would be unbelieveable and noise would be worse. Accuracy would be terrible.

"Thompson" can be either Thompson Center, or a copy of the Thompson submachine gun. The Thompson Center contender makes a single shot pistol in just about every caliber made in the world and various rifles, usually bolt action.

Auto Ordinance/Kahr makes copies of the old Thompson submachine gun that are semi auto and have a 16.5 inch barrel that you mentioned. These are the M1, M1C, and so on. Is this the one you are talking about? They as well list full auto weapons but they are "not in production" at this time and for law enforcement only as well. None of these being sold now are full auto and do not require anything special of the ATF. Possibly by your home state or city authorities but otherwise not.

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_front_lg.html

Hope this helps.

Joe A

jyl · jyl's Garage

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_m1sb_f.html

is what I was looking at.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

That web site says it's a semi-auto but the warnings in red seem pretty strict for a semi auto. Dunno why, frankly, but you'll never get a Class 3 license in Ca....esp. not SF area.

fastpat · 09-30-2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jyl
What's involved in buying a class 2 or 3 gun? I might be using the terms wrong, I mean a short-barreled rifle or shotgun. In particular, the short-barreled M1A replica Thompson made by Kahr: 10.5" barrel, but semi-auto.

I dn't know about the "any other weapon" you've mentioned, but in CA you won't get the state Attorney General's written permission to own a Class III NFA weapon unless you rent them to the movie industry. No such letters, outside the Hollywood industry, have been issued by either Republican or Democrat AG's in CA for the whole time the law has been in effect.

That's a part of the federal law, if your state has any controlling law on these weapons, you must obey those to comply with the federal law.

Joeaksa · 09-30-2006, 08:02 AM

John,

Sure you do not want the longer barrel? With the short barrel you might not be able to get it.

Easier would be to move to Arizona or Neveda like the rest of the sane people in SoCal seem to be doing. Course we are getting full...

tabs · 09-30-2006, 08:04 AM

AWE Someone had to go and tell him they are not LEGAL IN CA...nor is the semi-auto version either...

fastpat · 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
AWE Someone had to go and tell him they are not LEGAL IN CA...nor is the semi-auto version either...

Machine guns are legal in California if you obtain a letter from the CA Attorney General authorizing you to own it. No AG has EVER written such a letter except as I've stated.

So-called assault weapons, semi-auto rifles, come under a different law and no new ones on the list can be registered in CA.

Those laws are in violation of the Second Amendment and if George W. Bush were a genuine proponent of the Second Amendment he'd set the federal government on the state of California over it.

Fat chance.

tabs · 09-30-2006, 04:46 PM

Fast have U read CA laws regarding Assualt Weapons...Under those laws owning a Thompson is illegal unless Grandfathered back in 92 by registering it with the state (semi auto version), and your post is a moot point....the effect is the same... without the Att Gen letter having the gun is illegal... even law enforcement officers can't get a letter.

fastpat · 09-30-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Fast have U read CA laws regarding Assualt Weapons...Under those laws owning a Thompson is illegal unless Grandfathered back in 92 by registering it with the state (semi auto version), and your post is a moot point....the effect is the same... without the Att Gen letter having the gun is illegal... even law enforcement officers can't get a letter.

I was there for most of the whole deal (92-2005), I was in Sacremento for the lobbying effort to stop some of it. So, yes, I'm only too aware of the overall situation in CA.

It's a fascist state run by crackpots. What more can I say?

targa911S · 09-30-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
John,

Getting your dealers license is not anywhere like it was a few years ago and now you almost have to have an actual store to have a license.

You bet! I have looked into it. Having the biz in you r home is risky. Do you really want to advertise that you have weapons in your house. Not me. However, I want to do gunsmithing as a way to make some extra money. If I could set up at my house, most likely myy insurance company will drop me. BATF is very picky these days about handing out licenses. They really want you to have a store off premises. However you must secure the location, have security in place, insurance in force, and a safe on the premises, BEFORE they will even inspect you. Even then they may just sayy no. That is a lot of money to lay out only to be turned down. I think a C&R is fine as long as you only buy guns over 50 years old and a few other rules. However it still is not enough to call yourself a gunsmith and open for biz.

fastpat · 09-30-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by targa911S
You bet! I have looked into it. Having the biz in you r home is risky. Do you really want to advertise that you have weapons in your house. Not me. However, I want to do gunsmithing as a way to make some extra money. If I could set up at my house, most likely myy insurance company will drop me. BATF is very picky these days about handing out licenses. They really want you to have a store off premises. However you must secure the location, have security in place, insurance in force, and a safe on the premises, BEFORE they will even inspect you. Even then they may just sayy no. That is a lot of money to lay out only to be turned down. I think a C&R is fine as long as you only buy guns over 50 years old and a few other rules. However it still is not enough to call yourself a gunsmith and open for biz.

Yep, all true, yet another Clinton executive order to the BATFAE that Bush II has left in place.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Okay guys, I have moved from SF Bay to Portland OR. I figure that makes this sort of gun more attainable.

competentone · 09-30-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jyl
http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_m1sb_f.html

is what I was looking at.

Pay attention to what Kahr tells you in that link:

"Thompson Short Barrel Rifles must be shipped to a Class 2 manufacturer or Class 3 dealer directly from our factory in Worcester, MA. The transfer paperwork between Kahr Arms/Auto-Ordnance and the dealer, known as a Form 3, must be completed and approved by the NFA branch, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) before the Thompson SBR can be shipped to the dealer. The customer needs to pay a $200 transfer fee directly to the BATF. Your local dealer can assist you in this process.
Some states do not allow the purchase and transfer of SBRs (Short-Barrel Rifles). Please check the state laws in your state regarding ownership of Short Barrel Rifles. A list of Class 2 manufacturers and Class 3 dealers can be found at the following website: www.subguns.com. "

Ignore all the erroneous information posted in this thread!

You might find a Class 3 dealer listed with GunBroker:
http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

Also, have you handled a Thompson before? I haven't fired one, but for a .45 it's a heavy mother! If I were buying a short-barreled rifle chambered for a pistol round, I'd be looking at some of your lighter options. Of course, if I were to get a SBR, it would probably be in a rifle round -- something like a Krinkov.