Reports: 6 dead in Amish school shooting

on-ramp · 10:39 AM

why does it seem the only people who use guns are the criminals to execute our children?

Not to make this anti-gun thread (since there are a few gun collectors on the board), but it certainly plays a role.
Guns are too easy to get.

Too bad the NRA controls the government.

TheMentat · TheMentat's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by on-ramp
Not to make this anti-gun thread

Good luck with all THAT

sammyg2 · 10-02-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote: "why does it seem the only people who use guns are the criminals to execute our children?"

Let me see if I got this right, you actually believe that the only people who use guns are the people who go into schools and shoot kids? With all due respect which rock have you been hiding under?

Since people shooting up schools happens about every other year on average or less, and there are thousands of murders per year in this country, I'd say that logic is a bit tainted.

I suppose if guns were completely eliminated then people whould never have the urge to kill each other. There was probably no such thing as murder before guns were invented. No wars, no problems, everybody just died of old age before guns.

Guns are not the problem. if oyu want to eliminate murders, you need to outlaw people. Our race is evil, bloodthirsty, petty, and violent. Without guns they will use knives or swords or fire or rocks, but there will still be murderers.
Come to think of it, if you outlaw guns altogether there will still be just as many shootings because the same people who are willing to shoot each other will ignore the laws and still get guns.
the only ones that would be affected by outlawing guns would be the law-abiding citizens, and they are not the ones we need to worry about in the first place!

The NRA doesn't control government as you suggested. The people who are members of the NRA are also voters, and they (we) have a strong voice in who gets elected. We influence the government to represent us and our beliefs and our freedoms and our rights.
That is exactly how it is supposed to work.

Nathans_Dad · Nathans_Dad's Garage

Do Amish even use guns? I figured they might be a more bow and arrow type of people...

Jim Richards · 10-02-2006, 11:07 AM

Non-Amish guy kills little girls execution style. Just ******* sickening. I feels so bad for the families and friends. Why are all these sick fuchers messing with the kids?

craigster59 · craigster59's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by on-ramp
why does it seem the only people who use guns are the criminals to execute our children?

says the guy with the spinning gun avatar...

mikester · 10-02-2006, 11:15 AM

what the heck is going on?! Gun crime is nothing new but seems to have taken a dramatic twist over the past couple of weeks.

RallyJon · 10-02-2006, 11:39 AM

Guns didn't cause this crime, cruel 6th grade girls 20 years ago did:

Quote:

It appeared that Roberts was getting revenge for something that happened 20 years ago, and it involved young females.

from http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=4620763

creaturecat · 10-02-2006, 11:57 AM

says that three young girls were fatally shot - WITH A GUN.

NICKG · 10-02-2006, 12:21 PM

how the heck did he reload the flintlock that fast is what i want to know...

Jeff Higgins · 10-02-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by creaturecat
says that three young girls were fatally shot - WITH A GUN.

No *****.

charleskieffner · 10-02-2006, 01:00 PM

now boys and girls................wouldnt it be a smart and prudent idea to have ALL teachers, grade school thru college, background checked(how novel) and trained and armed with concealed carry weapons licenses. maybe this tragedy could have been averted, like last weeks.

better yet lets make ANOTHER DUMBA$$ gun law that only impedes law abiding citizens from gun ownership. that will solve everything!

question of the day..................how many FEDERAL gun laws are on the books now????

did any of these laws SAVE ANYONE TODAY??????

pwd72s · 08:02 AM

The press, dancing in the blood of victims, loves stories like this...they use it to back their anti second amendment stance.

They DO not give other stories national coverage...such as the homeowner in Albany, Oregon who shot & killed a 16 year old burglar breaking into his home. The man feared for the life & saftety of his wife and children...as he had every right to do. The Linn County D.A., after viewing all evidence & investigation reports, ruled it a justifiable shoot. Did not bother taking the shoot to the Grand Jury.

This wasn't reported on the local TV news...National? No way they'd cover it. It doesn't fit their agenda.

On ramp, stories like these happen in our country every day. The press chooses not to report them, that's all.

Your question: "why does it seem the only people who use guns are the criminals to execute our children?"
Is nothing more than heated rhetoric, because it is simply not true.

slakjaw · 10-02-2006, 01:12 PM

Its sickening that this crap is becoming so common anymore.

I do not want anymore gun laws but I have to think that this mofe who did this today was a law abideing mofe untill today.

I also think the notion of teachers having to pack heat to keep our children safe is sickening on a whole different level.

slakjaw · 10-02-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
The press,dancing in the blood of victims, loves stories like this...they use it to back their anti second amendment stance.

They DO not give other stories national coverage...such as the homeowner in Albany, Oregon who shot & killed a 16 year old burglar breaking into his home. The man feared for the life & saftety of his wife and children...as he had every right to do. The Linn County D.A., after viewing all evidence & investigation reports, ruled it a justifiable shoot. Did not bother taking the shoot to the Grand Jury.

This wasn't reported on the local TV news...National? No way they'd cover it. It doesn't fit their agenda.

On ramp, stories like these happen in our country every day. The press chooses not to report them, that's all.

Your question: "why does it seem the only people who use guns are the criminals to execute our children?"
Is nothing more than heated rhetoric, because it is simply not true.

I too disagree with the "why does it seem the only people who use guns are the criminals to execute our children?" statment

but I can understand his fustration.

Jeff Higgins · 10-02-2006, 01:19 PM

Ted Nugent asked what many of us were thinking right after Columbine: "If just one teacher had a gun, and the skill to use it, how many lives would have been saved?"

No one should fear honest men and women with guns. We should all fear the day when honest men and women cannot have them, because the dishonest will not give up theirs. We outnumber them by the vast majority; the "goblins" (Jeff Cooper's term) are emboldened by the knowledge that most honest folks are unnarmed.

Jims5543 · 10-02-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
Ted Nugent asked what many of us were thinking right after Columbine: "If just one teacher had a gun, and the skill to use it, how many lives would have been saved?"

No one should fear honest men and women with guns. We should all fear the day when honest men and women cannot have them, because the dishonest will not give up theirs. We outnumber them by the vast majority; the "goblins" (Jeff Cooper's term) are emboldened by the knowledge that most honest folks are unnarmed.

Preface - I am not anti-gun. But, I am baffled as to what to do to stop these bad people.

Why don't prison guards carry guns? While I think a teacher with a gun would be great in a Columbine situation, I think the danger of them being in schools in teachers desks outweighs the advantages.

I cannot even get my sons teachers to do their daily internet entries and we want to trust them to properly secure a gun?

I disagree with teachers being armed, but I agree guns are not the problem. I am just at a loss as to what to do.

jyl · jyl's Garage

This particular sort of criminal is difficult to deter, because he expects and intends to die anyway. They're not "rational" criminals.

You can have an armed guard(s) at the school. You can control access to the school property. You can authorize teachers to go armed. You can set up a more rapid police response. You can install cameras so the responding police can locate the criminal/hostages. Etc etc.

Ends up being a cost-benefit sort of decision. "Cost" isn't just financial, it includes turning schools into something like a minimum security prison.

My personal view is, it seems like we're having a surge of school killings right now, it could be a genuine increase in this sort of crime or simply a random blip - kind of like how we can go years without an airliner crash and then have 3 in a year. I'd wait and watch, if it looks like a genuine increase then the cost-benefit decision probably changes and we start seeing armed guards in more schools.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Oh, BTW, many states' concealed weapons license laws prohibit carry in schools. Or many local authorities try to enforce the law that way, anyhow. So even if a teacher were a CCW holder, s/he wouldn't be able to carry in the school, in those states.

Obviously, in the Amish school, none of the teachers were going to be armed. They might not have even had a telephone. Perhaps that is why the criminal chose to attack an Amish school.

Jeff Higgins · 10-02-2006, 03:12 PM

I have actually spent time hunting with a couple of Amish guys outside of Eau Claire, Wisconsin. They have guns and they are pretty damn good with them. To think they would not own them demonstrates a little bit of a miss-understanding of what they are all about. Remember, self-defense is no sin. Allowing criminals to harm you and your loved ones is.

Jim, I'm at an equal loss as to what to do. I'm not for teachers being armed unless the individual teachers want to be, and legally can be, under their states' CCW's. In other words, they should not be asked to give up their right to self defense just because they are at work teaching our children. The whole "gun-free school zone" thing is merely another foot in the door for the anti-gun crowd.

Take a look at any big city map that has these zones. They extend for some distance off of school property, creating a gun-free "buffer" around the school. Put a disc of that radius centered over every school in the city and, if it's like Seattle, there are effectively no legal carry zones anywhere in the city. Funny how that worked out.

Years ago there was a local to-do about children getting nabbed from rural bus stops. Parents started manning those stops, visibly armed. And legally so. No kids got nabbed from those stops. The county sheriff, in his infinite wisdom, put the pressure on these parents to stop, calling it "vigilantism". Not that he would (or could) provide a deputy at every stop, but it was clearly not, in his mind, the lowly citizens' place to provide for their own protection.

Hogwash. It is up to each and every one of us, the good and honest citizens, to provide for our own security and that of our loved ones. Chipping away at that right, in our schools or wherever else, merely gives the "goblins" safer playgrounds. We should not stand for that.