yes, let's burn more books!

[bt1211]

As I read the post on this BB, I am truly amazed at how some people are on the edge of insanity. Sammyg2 and Rick Lee are advocating for not funding PLs. PLs should COMPETE in the free market?????!!!!

Even the crazies that want to ban books havent jumped on that bandwagon. YET.

Then again I know it gives some people great pleasure in arguing any/all POVs with someone on the web.

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by nostatic
funny, but my Harvard-educated girlfriend spends a fair amount of time in public libraries. Make whatever jokes you want, but just because a couple of well-paid people here don't go to them doesn't mean that they serve no purpose in society.

People rail about lack of education yet want to get rid of public libraries. ok...

I don't remember anyone saying they serve no purpose. I just don't think they warrant public funding. And between prep school and college and school of life, none of my education came from public libraries.

[Les Paul]

Like I said earlier if you are a book junky. By that I mean read 2-3 books a week why bother buying and then trading books in when you can read them for free? I gave books away for years now I don't have to.

[dd74]

This isn't about what you think, Rick. Thankfully at that because your "thinking" represents a small number of the American population...

...you, having gone to prep school.

...you having gone to college.

...you having well-stocked libraries in both institutions.

So how about those who have not the funds or other means necessary to be so...literate? Are they worthless in your opinion, or somehow aren't needful of what can be read in books or online?

And as Todd states, those of higher intellectual positions in our society also realize the value of libraries. It's not just punks and homeless.

And last, as public-funded institutions which have historically empowered people far beyond "reading habits" or surfing the Internet, which should, according to you, have their funding yanked, libraries obviously serve no purpose, again to you, because you realize public funding is how they keep their doors open. "The land could be made for better use," you earlier said.

But again, thankfully, this isn't a matter of what you think.

[Rick Lee]

Anyone who is in a public school has access to that school's library. Anyone who's out of school should be responsible for themselves. Why is that so difficult? In between are the Internet, half.com, flea markets and used book stores.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by nostatic
You guys are kidding about getting rid of public libraries, right?

I'd ask you to name one need fulfilled by taxpayer funded libraries not fulfilled by privately funded libraries. I can shorten your search by telling you that there are none.

I'm not advocating libraries closed to the public, just pointing out the fact that stolen tax loot isn't needed to fund libraries.

[Rick Lee]

As for stolen tax loot, no other country spends close to what we do on education and gets less for it. More money will never fix the educmacation problem here. But DD74 and Nostatic, don't worry. When I am king, the list of public funding cuts I'd mae is so long, I don't think we'd live long enough to get to public libraries.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by fastpat
I'd ask you to name one need fulfilled by taxpayer funded libraries not fulfilled by privately funded libraries.

Open access to computers with access to the internet with access to PPOT so they can read your posts and determine for themselves whether or not you are whack.

Try *that* in a privately funded library...

[Rick Lee]

Ya got me Nostatic. I hadn't thought of that one and it would be impossible anywhere BUT a taxpayer-funded public library. Right?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by nostatic
Open access to computers with access to the internet with access to PPOT so they can read your posts and determine for themselves whether or not you are whack.

Try *that* in a privately funded library...

In actual fact, computer access in libraries was and is a colossal mistake. Want internet access, go to a publically funded university or pay for it yourself. It's cheaper than daily cigarette purchases.

[nostatic]

You guys seem to assume that everyone in this country is like you, and has access to the same things that you do. So you're right. People shouldn't use public libraries. They should buy their own computer, get their own internet connection, and buy their own books. Forget all these free handouts to ungrateful citizens. It is a travesty! They can find information, knowledge and cuture on their own dime. I do it. They can too. And if they can't afford it, screw them. They should just work harder. We don't want to advocate literacy anyway....

[fastpat]

Originally posted by nostatic
You guys seem to assume that everyone in this country is like you, and has access to the same things that you do. So you're right. People shouldn't use public libraries. They should buy their own computer, get their own internet connection, and buy their own books. Forget all these free handouts to ungrateful citizens. It is a travesty! They can find information, knowledge and cuture on their own dime. I do it. They can too. And if they can't afford it, screw them. They should just work harder. We don't want to advocate literacy anyway....

Used computer, $50.00, WI-FI card $10.00, WI-FI access free, home dial up $5.00 per month or less.

My cost: DSL several hundred per year, Macintosh computer $1500+, DSL router plus cards and so forth $200.00.

No, they're not like me, they expenses are one hell of a lot less, by my choice, and it's really less than a $7.00 per day cigarette pack habit.

Virtually anyone that wants computer access to the internet can buy it.

Access via the public library system is not only not supplying a need, it's causing many more problems than it has solved.

[K. Roman]

People on this board get to say what they think, but I don't think they'd actually try and implement 1% of what they say.

[sammyg2]

QUOTE: "People shouldn't use public libraries. They should buy their own computer, get their own internet connection, and buy their own books. Forget all these free handouts to ungrateful citizens. It is a travesty! They can find information, knowledge and cuture on their own dime. I do it. They can too. And if they can't afford it, screw them. They should just work harder."

Finally some sense. Nostatic gets it, why don't the rest of you?

[dd74]

Originally posted by nostatic
You guys seem to assume that everyone in this country is like you, and has access to the same things that you do. So you're right. People shouldn't use public libraries. They should buy their own computer, get their own internet connection, and buy their own books. Forget all these free handouts to ungrateful citizens. It is a travesty! They can find information, knowledge and cuture on their own dime. I do it. They can too. And if they can't afford it, screw them. They should just work harder. We don't want to advocate literacy anyway....

Well, we may not agree about sports, but I agree with you here.

I'm glad this thread is just a microcosm of myopic, self-centeredness. Still, after reading some of these posts, I have to wonder how the U.S. remains the most charitable nation on Earth.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by dd74
Well, we may not agree about sports, but I agree with you here.

I'm glad this thread is just a microcosm of myopic, self-centeredness. Still, after reading some of these posts, I have to wonder how the U.S. remains the most charitable nation on Earth.

You're talking about two different things. Charity is voluntarily given; public funding for libraries is taken at gun point. Huge difference.

[dd74]

Originally posted by fastpat
You're talking about two different things. Charity is voluntarily given; public funding for libraries is taken at gun point. Huge difference.

Gun point. LOL! Taxes are also voted on, as are bond measures, etc., etc. - which can constitute - if a bond is passed resulting in higher taxes - a quasi "giving" or "charity."

Ultimately, the people have influence into endeavors such as publicly-funded libraries as they do police forces, schools, etc.

You've just been so at odds with Democracy that you forget it can still work.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by dd74
Gun point. LOL! Taxes are also voted on, as are bond measures, etc., etc. - which can constitute - if a bond is passed resulting in higher taxes - a quasi "giving" or "charity."

Ultimately, the people have influence into endeavors such as publicly-funded libraries as they do police forces, schools, etc.

You've just been so at odds with Democracy that you forget it can still work.

If money is taken from you that you haven't given permission to take, it's theft no matter what terms you couch it in, DD74.

Here's the theory in layman's terms.

If I stop you on the sidewalk and hold you at gun point demanding $100.00 with the explanation that I'm giving $90.00 to charity and only keeping the $10.00 to pay for my lunch and for ammunition; you'd still call that armed robbery.

At what point does it become democracy? When 10,000 people agree to get what they want via that method? One million people?

In point of fact, the majority voting to take this money to do something that they want, but don't want to fund with their own money, is theft no matter how many agree to it.

[dd74]

Originally posted by fastpat
If money is taken from you that you haven't given permission to take, it's theft no matter what terms you couch it in, DD74.

Here's the theory in layman's terms.

If I stop you on the sidewalk and hold you at gun point demanding $100.00 with the explanation that I'm giving $90.00 to charity and only keeping the $10.00 to pay for my lunch and for ammunition; you'd still call that armed robbery.

At what point does it become democracy? When 10,000 people agree to get what they want via that method? One million people?

In point of fact, the majority voting to take this money to do something that they want, but don't want to fund with their own money, is theft no matter how many agree to it.

I'm afraid your analogy works only if a librarian was holding the gun.

[Rick Lee]

That reminds me of a librarian at one of my schools. He was a huge, hairy, sasquatch-looking guy. We called him Conan the Librarian.