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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Clinton, NJ
Posts: 12,782
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Who Needs Habeus Corpus
Without making this a political discussion, let's just look at some of the ramifications of Habeus Corpus being disallowed. If the Executive Branch were to deem someone an Enemy Combatant under the broad reaching scope of the law, said person could be "disappeared" (some pretty good definitions here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappeared ) in the interest of National Security.
So, "I'm a good upstanding citizen", you say, "and what do I have to worry about?" I'm sure a good number of us here are involved in the corporate world, and are very familiar with the absolute incompetence that seems to abound within. Now, picture the various beauracracies within the government. Take the corporate clusterfuch factor and square it, and apply it to the many agencies who have involvement in National Security. (I feel that squaring it is a best case scenario when talking about the proven ineptitude of the public service sector.) Then, let these agencies make lists of Persons of Interest, and disseminate these names into the System. Do you think that there might be a few "errors", given that we're talking corporate cluster squared? Maybe some of these names might make it onto a Terror Watch List, and what if these lists were the basis for determining Enemy Combatants? Yeah, I know, if you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about. But what if there was a mistake? What if there were 30,000 mistakes? Would that be okay? Anyway, an interesting article... Oct 6, 10:59 PM (ET) By LESLIE MILLER (WASHINGTON (AP) - Thousands of people have been mistakenly linked to names on terror watch lists when they crossed the border, boarded commercial airliners or were stopped for traffic violations, a government report said Friday. More than 30,000 airline passengers have asked just one agency - the Transportation Security Administration - to have their names cleared from the lists, according to the Government Accountability Office report. Hundreds of millions of people each year are screened against the lists by Customs and Border Protection, the State Department and state and local law enforcement agencies. The lists include names of people suspected of terrorism or of possibly having links to terrorist activity. "Misidentifications can lead to delays, intensive questioning and searches, missed flights or denied entry at the border," the report said. "Whether appropriate relief is being afforded these individuals is still an open question." When questions arose about tens of thousands of names between December 2003 and January 2006, the names were sent back to the agencies that put them on the lists, the GAO said. Half of those were found to be misidentified, the report found. In December 2003, disparate agencies with counterterrorism responsibilities consolidated dozens of watch lists of known or suspected terrorists into the new Terrorist Screening Center run by the FBI. People are considered "misidentified" if they are matched to the database and then, upon further examination, are found not to match. They are usually misidentified because they have the same name as someone in the database. People are considered "mistakenly listed" if they were put on the list in error or if they should no longer be included on the list because of subsequent events, the report said. Problems developed with terrorist watch lists after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Maher Arar, a Canadian software engineer, was detained at New York's Kennedy Airport in 2002 because Canadian officials had asked that he be placed on a watch list. The U.S. transferred him without court approval to Syria where he was tortured and imprisoned for a year. A Canadian inquiry found that Arar should not have been on the list because he didn't do anything wrong. The no-fly list given to airlines to make sure terrorists don't board airplanes grew exponentially after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The no-fly list is part of the Terrorist Screening Center database. Young children and well-known Americans like Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., were stopped at airports because their names were the same as those on the no-fly list. The list has contained the names of Bolivia's President Evo Morales and Nabih Berri, Lebanon's parliamentary speaker, according to a report by CBS'"60 Minutes," to be broadcast Sunday. Richard Kopel, acting director of the screening center, said in a statement that Morales and Berri are not on the current no-fly list. He did not address whether they were in the past, noting only that the list changes daily. Two international flights - in December 2004 and May 2005 - were diverted because passenger were misidentified as on the no-fly list. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press that watch lists aren't perfect. "The watch list was the first stage of building a security net for the aviation system," Chertoff said. He said an agreement reached Friday between the U.S. and the European Union would help prevent people from being misidentified. The agreement calls for airlines to submit 34 pieces of data - including names, addresses and credit card details - about passengers flying from Europe to the United States. The report said agencies are working to minimize the effect on people who are frequently misidentified. TSA puts people on a special list of names that have been checked and cleared after they've complained to a call center and provided the agency more identification. Customs annotates its database with a note that certain people shouldn't be stopped. As of September 2006, Customs annotated more than 10,300 names. Customs also gives preapproved low-risk travelers ID cards that provide expedited processing. Customs acknowledged to the GAO that it needs to do a better job of providing guidance for their redress procedures for people who believe they've been misidentified. The Justice Department is leading an effort to make sure that all agencies formally document opportunities for redress and that agency responsibilities are clear, the report said.
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______________________________ Dave 1969 911T Coupe 1972 911E Targa |
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10-06-2006, 08:28 PM
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Recall the Portland lawyer who was accused by the FBI of involvement in the Madrid bombings. He wasn't involved, and the FBI even publicly apologized to him, after imprisoning him for two weeks, searching his and his clients' confidential files, and slandering him worldwide. But, fortunately, they couldn't simply make him disappear, nor could they torture him - at least not under the law in 2004.
Associated Press: FBI Apologizes to Lawyer Detained in Madrid Bombings FBI Apologizes to Lawyer Detained in Madrid Bombings Associated Press Tuesday, May 25, 2004 Portland, Oregon, attorney Brandon Mayfield was mistakenly detained by the FBI in connection with the bombing attacks in Madrid after authorities mismatched fingerprints found in Spain. LOS ANGELES, May 25 (MASNET & News Agencies) - The Federal Bureau of Investigation apologized to an American lawyer mistakenly detained for two weeks, often manacled and chained, as a material witness on suspicion of involvement in the deadly Madrid train bombings. The rare public FBI apology came after a U.S. federal judge on Monday threw out the case against attorney Brandon Mayfield, 37, four days after he was freed from jail after being dramatically held in an embarrassing case of mistaken identity resulting from a fingerprint mismatch, reports Agence France-Presse (AFP). "The FBI apologizes to Mr. Mayfield and his family for the hardships that this matter has caused," a statement from the federal law enforcement agency said. Mayfield, a convert to Islam who represented a high-profile terror suspect in a child custody case in his home city of Portland, Oregon, was held by authorities on May 6 after he was linked to a fingerprint found on a bag containing detonators and explosives discovered at a site linked to the March 11 terror bombings in Spain. "Soon after the submitted fingerprint was associated with Mr. Mayfield, Spanish authorities alerted the FBI to additional information that cast doubt on our findings," the FBI said. "Upon review it was determined that the FBI identification was based on an image of substandard quality, which was particularly problematic because of the remarkable number of points of similarity between Mr. Mayfield's prints and the print details in the images submitted to the FBI," it said. The bureau said its Latent Fingerprint Unit would review its practices and consider adopting new guidelines for its experts examining latent fingerprints taken from items which they do not have in their possession. On Monday, federal Judge Robert Jones dismissed the "material witness" proceedings against Mayfield after Spanish authorities linked the latent fingerprint found near the bomb site to an Algerian. "Due to the misidentification by the FBI of a fingerprint, the court orders the material witness proceeding dismissed," the judge wrote in a terse document. Jones also ordered all seized evidence, including money taken from Mayfield's safe deposit box, to be returned to Mayfield and that sealed documents linked to his May 6 arrest be made public. Mayfield had strenuously denied any involvement in the March 11 bombings of trains in Madrid that killed almost 200 people and injured nearly 2,000, which have been linked to extremists. Last week, court documents showed, fingerprinting expert Kenneth Moses testified under oath that a latent fingerprint forwarded by the Spanish authorities was that of Mayfield. "Al-hamdillilah, thank God I'm here," Mayfield told a packed press conference on Monday. Surrounded by his wife and three children, Mayfield described his imprisonment as "humiliating and embarrassing." "This whole process has been a harrowing ordeal. It shouldn't happen to anybody," said Mayfield on Monday. "I believe I was singled out and discriminated against, I feel, as a Muslim." "During my incarceration I was often manacled and chained," he said, mentioning that, initially, he was held in solitary confinement and then in the jail's mental ward. He declined to say if FBI agents became physical with him when he was arrested, reports Reuters news agency. Mayfield said he feared for his safety when inmates began to recognize him on the nightly news. In jail, a prison guard told him: "You should watch your back." "People should wake up. We need to start protecting our civil liberties," he said, also blasting the Patriot Act. "The material witness statute obviously gives the government too much power and must be amended, if not repealed," he said. Mayfield's defense team is asking the courts to investigate leaks by U.S. government authorities and asking the government to preserve the fingerprint information, but Mayfield declined to say if he would bring legal action against the government, reports Reuters. The fiasco has "blown my [law] practice completely apart," Mayfield said, because of negative publicity and the fact that agents had access to confidential legal files in his single practitioner office, the news agency reports. Mayfield expressed concern about others "languishing away" under the material witness law. This "shouldn't happen to anybody," Mayfield said. Mayfield, who runs a small Portland law office, was never facing any formal charges. He was arrested as a material witness, and held in the Multnomah County Detention Center on the chance that he might have information about the Spain bombings, reports the Associated Press (AP). According to court documents, FBI agents began their surveillance of Mayfield two weeks after the attacks in the Spanish capital. Under a provision of the U.S. Patriot Act, they entered his home without his knowledge - but aroused the family's suspicion by bolting the wrong lock on their way out and leaving a footprint on the rug that didn't match any family members, the news agency reports. During a later raid, FBI agents took Mayfield's computers, modem, safe deposit key, assorted papers, as well as copies of the Qur’an and what they classified as "Spanish documents" - apparently Spanish homework by one of Mayfield's sons. "I want to thank my family and friends who were supporting me through what I will call a harrowing ordeal," he said after being released last week. "There's a story to be told here, but now is not the time, and now is not the place. I want to decompress with my family. I had nothing to do with the bombing in Madrid, Spain," he was quoted as saying. "We need to know more about how this happened," said public defender Steve Wax, who represented Mayfield. "All of us in this country need to know more about how this type of mistake can be made," he was quoted as saying by local media. "The climate of fear of terror makes this a cautionary tale about the way in which that fear can ensnare an innocent person in the type of abuse to which Mr. Mayfield was subjected," Wax said.
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1989 3.2 Carrera coupe; 1988 Westy Vanagon, Zetec; 1986 E28 M30; 1994 W124; 2004 S211 What? Uh . . . “he” and “him”? Last edited by jyl; 10-06-2006 at 09:00 PM.. |
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10-06-2006, 08:45 PM
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Location: Clinton, NJ
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______________________________ Dave 1969 911T Coupe 1972 911E Targa |
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10-06-2006, 08:52 PM
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Travelers Rest, South Carolina
Posts: 8,795
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10-07-2006, 04:47 AM
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Living in Reality
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,671
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While I agree with everything in this post, there is nothing with the current supreme court's rulings that demonstrate what you're saying, no signs that indicate this will take place..... Just because someone picks the justice doesn't mean the justice remains lock-step with whatever that nominator wants.... |
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10-07-2006, 04:54 AM
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Travelers Rest, South Carolina
Posts: 8,795
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Still, to have what amounts to the whim of five to nine people deciding the freedom of America is cold comfort. |
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10-07-2006, 05:00 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: I'm out there.
Posts: 13,084
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I do not trust our government to be competent stewards of our
money, our freedom or our lives. The founding fathers did not intend a federal government with such sweeping power. Until the 10th amendment is reetablished our lives and liberty are at risk.
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My work here is nearly finished.
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10-07-2006, 05:47 AM
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Living in Reality
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,671
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*I meant to say thread....
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10-07-2006, 05:51 AM
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Living in Reality
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,671
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I still have faith in the USSC. |
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10-07-2006, 05:52 AM
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Living in Reality
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,671
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Gotta get specifics to the USSC. That takes effort (starting with a case in the lower court....) |
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10-07-2006, 05:53 AM
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1989 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2
