Who is, wants to be, a REAL american?

[snowman]

Who is, wants to be, a REAL American? Why do I ask this?

Well a real American is someone who's gggg grandparents lived here. WTF is all that about? Well its about SMALL town America. Originally all towns were small, America was small. Well living in and being part of a small town is not a piece of cake. Why?? Because EVERYONE knows everyone and everyone knows what you do, when you picked your nose, failed wash after you took a leak. Everyone knows what your gg grandfather/grandmother did and thinks you are the same misfit as they were. If you were gay, well everyone knows that, and you are excluded from the town, you are excluded from the community and anyone in it. If you were a liberal or conservative, you were a marked person, you either fit or did not. Inclusive, no way, you were either accidentally killed or moved out of town to destinations unknown. Weekly, monthly meetings of the townsfolk insured this. Religious? If you were not you were excluded from the town and all its activities, and even from marriage to most people in that town. This was the foundation of America.

Big cities started the secular movement. People moved to the big city for annaminity, to get lost in the crowd. This has been successful for many, but the small towns still exist and they will fight back.

Real America is now a compromise between the know it all small town and the big city. There are a lot more small towns than big cities. Who will win the hearts of America? I say the small towns. Why? Because they are still inhabited by people of the same zealotry that brought them to this country. People that risked all, life, liberty, family to come to a place where they could freely practice their religion and the rest of the small town practices that go with that.

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by snowman
Everyone knows what your gg grandfather/grandmother did and thinks you are the same misfit as they were. If you were gay, well everyone knows that, and you are excluded from the town, you are excluded from the community and anyone in it. If you were a liberal or conservative, you were a marked person, you either fit or did not. Inclusive, no way, you were either accidentally killed or moved out of town to destinations unknown. Weekly, monthly meetings of the townsfolk insured this. Religious? If you were not you were excluded from the town and all its activities, and even from marriage to most people in that town. This was the foundation of America.

Big cities started the secular movement. People moved to the big city for annaminity, to get lost in the crowd.

Translation: Anyone who was not an inbred f*cking moron got the hell out, and made their fortunes in the big city.

The 'small towns' as you describe them sound like medieval death camps.

But thats not what small town are like at all. Small towns often have all of the diversity and richness of big citys. Small towns today are full of immigrants, and gays, and people from all walks of life. Have you actually every lived in a small town? Because I grew up in one (pop 5200), and it was nothing like you describe.

Stop looking through the book of Norman Rockwell paintings and get real.

[jyl]

Well, given that my gggg grandparents were born in China as were all generations of my family until myself, I think you're wacko. But occasionally entertaining.

P.S. In a small village in China.

[MichiganMat]

Yeah, I remember the good ol' days back in my small town. Don't like somebody? Burn a cross in their yard or maybe nail a dead cat to their front door. If they complain you just drag 'em by a rope behind your horse or truck for awhile. It was all just good fun. Then the big-city folk had to stick their noses in our bid'ness and force us to be nice. T'ain't been the same since.

The South shall rise AGAIN!

[deathpunk dan]

fuuuuuuck your small towns.

oh wait.

Except for the nice one I live in where my neighbors are a village voice writer and a rock star.

[NICKG]

my mother's family came to america on the mayflower....i am american, but not proud of it, fwiw, I am embarrassed by it

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by snowman
Because they are still inhabited by people of the same zealotry that brought them to this country. People that risked all, life, liberty, family to come to a place where they could freely practice their religion and the rest of the small town practices that go with that.

Ugg.

What are you smoking?

You should really meet some people who have risked all to get here. With such silly statements, you know nothing about liberty, family and being persecuted over relegion. I could introduce you to more than a few. And yes, they are in the big city.



Otherwise, who will win the hearts of America? Population wise - it is the ex-urbs. Couch potatos watching TV, shopping in Malls and sitting in traffic.

[Racerbvd]

Well, on my fathers side, the Irish weren't treated very nicely in New York My German ones weren't warmly greeted either

[jorian]

I guess by Snowmans definition only American Indians are "real Americans."

I think snowman ate a lot of paint chips as a kid.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by jorian
I guess by Snowmans definition only American Indians are "real Americans."

I think snowman ate a lot of paint chips as a kid.

If I go back farther on my Grandmothers side, Cherokee Indians didn't have it too good either, anyone heard of The Trail of Tears

[jyl]

And you notice he hasn't chosen to live in a small town, nor to raise his kids there.

[Moneyguy1]

We need people like snow if for no other reason to show us why diversity is so imporatnt and why inbreeding is so dangerous.....

[motion]

I grew up in a town of 600 people in Montana and I can tell you that Snowman's description is not that far off. One needs to get away from the interstate, the McDonald's, the art and bead shops, etc. to find REAL small-town America. They are whacky places, still to this day. I visit my hometown every summer and am amazed to see it stuck in a time warp from my childhood. Even the fur trader at the end of Main St. is still there with his beaver, coyote and muskrat pelts for sale in front of the shop.

For me, the value of small town America is accountability. That is the underlying theme in Snow's post. Accountability is all but gone in most segments of American society, and for me, it is leading to the decay of our country and ideals. A return to these small-town values, with some moderation, IMHO would go a long way towards improving our society.

[Moneyguy1]

Moving to a small town in which one has not been raised is difficult. Isolation, mistrust, a feeling of "not belonging".

Far different to be raised there, leave and come back. You are like the prodigal son. "Welcome back, my boy".

Had some friends that moved to a small town on the NY/Pa border. Ten years later they were still "the newcomers".

[Tim Hancock]

Originally posted by motion
For me, the value of small town America is accountability. That is the underlying theme in Snow's post. Accountability is all but gone in most segments of American society, and for me, it is leading to the decay of our country and ideals. A return to these small-town values, with some moderation, IMHO would go a long way towards improving our society.

+1

Small towns are not what they once were. They are dying out. The small privately owned appliance stores, hardware stores, grocery stores, gas stations etc etc cannot compete with the rapidly advancing Wal-marts etc. 30 yrs ago, small towns still had affluent families living in them. Now many are inhabited mainly by white trash.

It is kind of sad driving thru some of these old small towns and seeing the buildings starting to crumble from neglect.

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1


Had some friends that moved to a small town on the NY/Pa border. Ten years later they were still "the newcomers".

The big city can actually have a small town feel. Neighborhoods can be very insular.

Had a neighbor getting on my case about where I parked my car a while back.. Then she went off on "you people moving here" and called me a "yuppie".

I laughed at her and reminded my family built this town while her's was still picking and stomping tomatos!

[jyl]

My main experience with small towns is with my wife's hometown. Not a tiny hamlet like motion describes, but when she grew up it was a small, rural, agricultural town. Still a relatively small town, about 65K people now (was probably around 20-30K when she was a little girl). I've spent a lot of time there in the past 15 years.

These are some of the things I observe.

The education level is low. Very few kids go to college, even fewer to anything beyond the local community college.

The cultural level is low. Hollywood movies are about the highest level of art and culture there is. A couple of bar bands too. Occasionally a county fair. Want to see any art, a museum, decent music, non-first-run films - drive 200 miles.

Almost everybody's inbred. I don't mean biologically inbred, I mean most everyone is married to someone who grew up in the same small town or maybe the small town down the road.

World view - what world view? About 90% of the average person's world view revolves around local crop prices, last week's high school football game, and what store is opening or closing in the nearest strip mall. The 10% that includes broader economic and political events is exceedingly dim. Germany, Pakistan, the UK, China, Brazil, Saudi Arabia are all lumped together in a vague sort of "elsewhere" populated mostly by dark people.

You're not different, or you leave. The kids who are creative, ambitious, cleverest, different, etc are mostly desperate to escape and eventually do move to larger cities. The ones who stay are, for the most part, the average and below-average ones.

There's very little opportunity. The economy is not growing, the jobs available are limited and most quite low-end. If you're a legal secretary, you're really high up in the local job and earnings pyramid. Even military salaries look decent in this context.

There is plenty of alcoholism, unfaithfulness, divorce, crime, and other bad behaviour. And no shortage of poverty. It's not as in-your-face as a big city with all the street people and scary headlines, but it is not vastly better.

Don't get seriously ill there. Medical care is not as good as in a large city. Those who can afford it go to the nearest big city for major procedures.

There are plenty of positive things about small towns, of course. But are they really a better place to grow up than the big city? As far as I can see, not hardly.

P.S. Just read Tim's post. Maybe he's hit the nail on the head. Perhaps the particular town I'm talking about was a better place 40 years ago. (Although, even then, all the cleverest kids left as fast as they could.)

[sewell94]

I grew up in a small town, and u would love to go back there, but small towns are dying because manufacturing jobs are leaving etc etc and there are not that many jobs comming back to them.. Now about the education being not up to standards, thats some BS. I went from a small town to a much larger town in Fl, and i can tell u that the education was 10 times better in the small town, i think most of it was due to the fact that the teachers actually taught instead of babysiting a bunch of foul-mouthed kids that were raised by a bunch of parents that don't give a ****. The schools where i'm from push college education like crazy, i would bet that 75% went to college or into a trade, yes most moved away, but almost everyone i've talked to misses it, it was nice walking across town and not worring about stuff, or not having to lock you doors on your house. Most i've talked to want to move back to raise their kids the same way. now i'm not talking about a town is 500 people, but in the 30k range, i have cousins that were raised in village of ~5k people and one is in college along with 75% of the kids in his class. I hate to sound racist but i think alot of it is due to the fact that u have have 10 different races being mixed together and only have of them speaking english. I would love to move back to my hometown but due to lack of jobs it won't happen , i think alot of that is from overseas manufacturing, i think thats also why alot of people are moving to the mid atlantic/tenn/ga/nc area, they can get there small town feel with jobs. Thats why i want to move to Nc.

[jyl]

Small town kids are less likely to go to college, and if they do, they are more likely to go to a 2-yr community college.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d02/dt185.asp

US Dept of Education data.

Among public school 12th grade students:

- if grow up in central city: 68.2% go to college (42.8% to 4-year, 25.4% to 2-yr). Another 7.5% go to trade school.
- if grow up in small town/rural: 58.2% go to college (37.4% to 4-yr, 21.4% to 2-yr). 10.1% go to trade school.

Similar difference among private school 12th grade students.

[deathpunk dan]

Originally posted by jyl
My main experience with small towns is with my wife's hometown. Not a tiny hamlet like motion describes, but when she grew up it was a small, rural, agricultural town. Still a relatively small town, about 65K people now (was probably around 20-30K when she was a little girl). I've spent a lot of time there in the past 15 years.

These are some of the things I observe.

The education level is low. Very few kids go to college, even fewer to anything beyond the local community college.

The cultural level is low. Hollywood movies are about the highest level of art and culture there is. A couple of bar bands too. Occasionally a county fair. Want to see any art, a museum, decent music, non-first-run films - drive 200 miles.

Almost everybody's inbred. I don't mean biologically inbred, I mean most everyone is married to someone who grew up in the same small town or maybe the small town down the road.

World view - what world view? About 90% of the average person's world view revolves around local crop prices, last week's high school football game, and what store is opening or closing in the nearest strip mall. The 10% that includes broader economic and political events is exceedingly dim. Germany, Pakistan, the UK, China, Brazil, Saudi Arabia are all lumped together in a vague sort of "elsewhere" populated mostly by dark people.

You're not different, or you leave. The kids who are creative, ambitious, cleverest, different, etc are mostly desperate to escape and eventually do move to larger cities. The ones who stay are, for the most part, the average and below-average ones.

There's very little opportunity. The economy is not growing, the jobs available are limited and most quite low-end. If you're a legal secretary, you're really high up in the local job and earnings pyramid. Even military salaries look decent in this context.

There is plenty of alcoholism, unfaithfulness, divorce, crime, and other bad behaviour. And no shortage of poverty. It's not as in-your-face as a big city with all the street people and scary headlines, but it is not vastly better.

Don't get seriously ill there. Medical care is not as good as in a large city. Those who can afford it go to the nearest big city for major procedures.

There are plenty of positive things about small towns, of course. But are they really a better place to grow up than the big city? As far as I can see, not hardly.

P.S. Just read Tim's post. Maybe he's hit the nail on the head. Perhaps the particular town I'm talking about was a better place 40 years ago. (Although, even then, all the cleverest kids left as fast as they could.)

You hit the nail on the head, big time, describing my experience growing up in southeastern MA in the 70s and 80s.