My son was ostracized for wanting prop 85 - parental notification to pass

cantdrv55 · 11-03-2006, 10:06 AM

In AP US History class, prop 85 was debated. My son said he was for parental notification because he didn't think girls his age are mature enough to make this decision on their own let alone go through the procedure without a parent present. He argued that it is notification and not consent and that there are provisions built in to block this on a case by case basis. He researched this on his own in preparation for the debate.

He couldn't believe how many kids in his class were so misinformed about the propsition. Most, he says, get their info from peers or from TV ads alone. Not one bothered to read the fine print yet he was cast out for not protecting a woman's right to choose. He had to bring the write-up to class the next day and read the provision aloud to change minds. Still, some kids aren't talking to him.

masraum · 11-03-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cantdrv55
Still, some kids aren't talking to him.

Well, those folks aren't worth talking to anyway I'd say. Sounds like you've got a smart kid with a good head. Be proud. Unfortunately it's sometimes lonely at the top.

HardDrive · 11-03-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cantdrv55
because he didn't think girls his age are mature enough to make this decision on their own......

And you are wondering why he is being ostracized?

Jim Richards · 11-03-2006, 10:20 AM

sounds like some of the "discussions" here on PPOT.

masraum · 11-03-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
And you are wondering why he is being ostracized?

That should be the obvious part.

But besides telling his peers that none of them are mature enough to make important decisions (he's right, of course, but no one ever wants to hear that about themselves) teens often get all excited about political matters which can be good. The problem comes from the fact that they don't have enough life experience, and they don't really get the whole picture of how the world works, so their ideas are often based on unrealistic ideals.

scottmandue · 11-03-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
sounds like some of the "discussions" here on PPOT.

YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU BIG STUPIDHEAD!!!

mikester · 11-03-2006, 10:26 AM

Sounds like that particular subject probably wasn't right for discussion in class but that's just my opinion. Theres a reason kids can't vote. They aren't mature enough to do so.

I'm not exactly for stopping this discussion in class but I think if I were the teach I would have choosen differently. Abortion is simply too tough to discuss in open forums typically, people in general simply cannot respect the opinion of someone else if it differs from theirs.

Of course it's hard though, we're talking about the death of a baby ultimately. Obviously little good can come from it but a great many of our nation believe some good can and does come from it.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I'm just happy they're actually having a debate on current political topics. People here complain about an uniformed and disinterested electorate. This is one way you change that.

EdT82SC · 11-03-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikester
Sounds like that particular subject probably wasn't right for discussion in class but that's just my opinion. Theres a reason kids can't vote. They aren't mature enough to do so.

I'm not exactly for stopping this discussion in class but I think if I were the teach I would have choosen differently. Abortion is simply too tough to discuss in open forums typically, people in general simply cannot respect the opinion of someone else if it differs from theirs.

Of course it's hard though, we're talking about the death of a baby ultimately. Obviously little good can come from it but a great many of our nation believe some good can and does come from it.

How are kids going to be prepared to be responsible voting citizens if they don't learn a little about political issues before they are old enough to vote? It sounds to me like this lesson ended up getting the entire class really informed about the issue, and discussing it.

mikester · 11-03-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdT82SC
How are kids going to be prepared to be responsible voting citizens if they don't learn a little about political issues before they are old enough to vote? It sounds to me like this lesson ended up getting the entire class really informed about the issue, and discussing it.

I didn't say they shouldn't be discussing things; I just said that particular topic *maybe* wasn't the best choice.

What you think I said vs what I said appear to be different things.

Then again, it was an AP History class so maybe it is appropriate in an AP class. If it were a regular freshman or sophmore class though I'd be a little concerned as a parent. Mainly because its a very heated issue and I don't know that anyone learns from the sorts of "discussions" that ensue from it. Look how well they go here and we're supposed to be adults.

notfarnow · 11-03-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdT82SC
How are kids going to be prepared to be responsible voting citizens if they don't learn a little about political issues before they are old enough to vote? It sounds to me like this lesson ended up getting the entire class really informed about the issue, and discussing it.

I dunno, debating issues as emotional as that can actually deter people from expressing their opinions.

You wouldn't want kids to end up feeling that if they express an unpopular standpoint, they will be ostracized for it.

It's fine for a teacher to get students to debate "hot" issues, as long as they ensure all opinions are treated with respect. If that doesn't happen, the exercise fails.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

my hope would be that discussion in the classroom would lead to discussion at home. Because odds are the discussion of those topics does *not* take place at home without some prodding...

Plus this isn't an abstract debate: this is a ballot initiative.

chibone_914 · 11-03-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cantdrv55
In AP US History class, prop 85 was debated. My son said he was for parental notification because he didn't think girls his age are mature enough to make this decision on their own let alone go through the procedure without a parent present. He argued that it is notification and not consent and that there are provisions built in to block this on a case by case basis. He researched this on his own in preparation for the debate.

He couldn't believe how many kids in his class were so misinformed about the propsition. Most, he says, get their info from peers or from TV ads alone. Not one bothered to read the fine print yet he was cast out for not protecting a woman's right to choose. He had to bring the write-up to class the next day and read the provision aloud to change minds. Still, some kids aren't talking to him.

Good Boy!!! You know you're raising your son right when he stands up for what he believes in.

Wish more parents were like you!

bt1211 · 11-03-2006, 02:04 PM

Cant 55 was that his opinion or yours?

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

I thought hyper-sensitivity was a trait of the left? Your kid could also be 'ostracized' for having the wrong color ipod, or - perish the though - no ipod at all! Or the wrong shoes! Or the wrong clothes. Or being in AP History in the first place...

artplumber · 11-03-2006, 02:14 PM

A debate/discussion will hopefully help kids to see beyond the rhetoric commonly found in politics.

"Did he actually hold the beliefs he argued for?" Well this is less important than the fact that he was ostracized. Another example of the general lowering of tolerance. BTW I've noticed that people are much more effective arguing a position they don't believe in, because they become more dispassionate about it.

HardDrive · 11-03-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cantdrv55
My son said he was for parental notification because he didn't think girls his age are mature enough to make this decision on their own let alone go through the procedure without a parent present.

That does not sound like the thinking of a teenager. It sounds like a teenager parroting what he has heard at home.

Of course liberal kids do the same thing......but being a liberal is cool .

bt1211 · 11-03-2006, 02:25 PM

That was my point HD

And then telling Dad about it, so Dad can be proud jr has stuck it to the libs.

cantdrv55 · 11-03-2006, 03:30 PM

I am proud of my son for sticking up for what HE believes in. We have discussed abortion at length at home. He knows I am pro-choice (yes, I lean to the left on this issue) but as to prop 85, I never even considered it. He brought the topic home for discussion, not me. And believe me, when he said he wanted to talk further about abortion, I was concerned.

Moneyguy1 · 11-03-2006, 03:35 PM

Hypersensitivity cuts both ways, left and right.

I wish more debates on current hard to define events would be addressed in a civil manner in schools. The info most people get comes form CNN, CNBC and of course FOX as well as political "infomercials". All one has to do is analyze the amount of disinformation posted here by otherwise intelligent people and it becomes painfully clear that more objective sources of information are needed.