Gays are "Disordered"

[Superman]

I'm as straight as an arrow. Let me just place that up front. I have gay and lesbian friends that I adore. Their lifestyles and decisions are none of my business. I like them just fine as people, regardless of their decisions in the bedroom. As I have reported here before, it seems crystal clear to me that a person's relationship with God is intensely and completely personal. That's between God and that person. It further seems crystal clear to me that 1) we are supposed to behave in a certain way and that way involves discipline and 2) We in fact do not behave the way we should. We are fallen creatures.

Gays' vigorous negative reaction to the Church's recent declaration that homosexuals are "disordered" was predictable. The Church does, and will continue to, regard homosexuality as "disordered," and will continue to declare sexual relations with same-sex partners as sinful. The Church will not pretend that good behavior is convenient. The Church will not tell the world what it wishes to hear.

But I just wanted to post here my observation that it's not just homosexuals who are "disordered." You all know I feel sorry for humans. I do. We are all broken, and here is an example that I think relates to the current Church announcement. I confess I stole this example from CS Lewis:

We all have appetites. Homosexuals like rubbing peepees with other same-sex folks. Heteros like other-sex peepees. Most of us enjoy a nice ice cream treat. Many of us can appreciate a tender rib eye steak with a baked potato and perhaps an artichoke or yellow squash. Baked Copper-River salmon is heavenly. Et cetera. But have you ever seen folks go to the movie house to watch someone else eat a delicious meal. That's what we sometimes do with sex. X-rated movies and videos are fairly popular. Strip joints, too. So if we wouldn't go watch someone else enjoy a delicious meal, why would we go watch someone bone a bimbo?

Heteros are just as twisted as homos. If people had a better appreciation for the broken condition of the earthbound human, the perhaps we would be less likely to get our panties (or baxers, whatever) in a wad over Church statements that we know darned well are entirely true.

Stifling urges is not unique to Christians with homosexual inclinations. Nature, as Katherine Hepburn once said "is what we are put here to rise above."

Extra bonus points for the first person who can place that quote.

[kang]

There is a natural human tendency to be fearful of, or distrust, or even hate, people who don’t think, look and act like we do.

But I’m not sure I agree with “Church statements that we know darned well are entirely true,” nor do I think “we are put here to rise above [nature].” I would say the church statements about homosexuality come from the natural human tendency I mentioned above. That they felt that way when they [men] wrote the books that became the bible is no big revelation. And I would say we should live in symbiosis with nature, not try to rise above it. We are part of nature ourselves.

[Jims5543]

My great uncle passed away 3 years ago and I sorely miss him. He was the life of the party at family functions, weddings etc.. He was not super wealthy but lived as though. He had a place on Central Park East overlooking the park, ate out at the finest resteraunts and lived life to the fullest. He was a publisher of a small magazine mainly for the wall street crowd. He was also deep in the closet in fear of the backlash from some of my relatives who were very religious and from all different kinds of religions, from Roman Catholic to Jehovahs Witnesses. I knew his sectret even though we never spoke of it. It was sad he had to hide his real life from his family and they would not accept him for who he was.

Religion is funny like that. Double standards. I worked with a Catholic guy that refused to eat meat on Friday but would fornicate with his girlfriend daily. How is eating meat a bigger wrong that fornication. I could never understand it.

You hit the mark Supe, how can porn be so huge if so many people are against it? Who is buying it? Hmmmm......

I grew up in a home that taught me to "hate" gays. They were against god and the bible told me they were bad people. As I grew up and developed my own mind I realized, wow, there really is no difference between me and that gay guy other than he probably gets laid more than I.

[Taz's Master]

kang, if we are to live in symbiosis with nature, and nature gave us the tendancy to fear/distrust/hate those who are different are we to embrace that notion, or shoud we rise above it?

[kang]

Originally posted by Taz's Master
kang, if we are to live in symbiosis with nature, and nature gave us the tendancy to fear/distrust/hate those who are different are we to embrace that notion, or shoud we rise above it?

Nature gave us the ability to rise above our natural tendencies to fear/distrust/hate, so rising above those low brow attitudes is also living in symbiosis with nature. In fact, when you rise above these tendencies, you are living in symbiosis with those who don’t think, look and act like you do. When you fear/distrust/hate, you are not.

[Nathans_Dad]

So we should rise above our natural tendencies to fear/distrust/hate, but should give in if we have a natural tendency for homosexuality...

Sounds perfectly logical.

[the]

The world would be a better place if everyone were gay.

[m21sniper]

Im with you Nate's dad.

Homosexuality serves no purpose other than to fulfill the deviant desires of selfish individuals at the cost of the propagation of the species while also conveniently being a fantastic vehicle for the continuing spread of AIDS and other STDs do to the propensity of gay men to practice highly risky sexual behaviour. What's more, i am entirely unconvinced that having gays around our children(teachers, priests, etc) is anything but stupid.

On a related note, i just figured out that my little sister (19yo) is a carpet muncher this last weekend. LOL...

[911boost]

I prefer a bare floor as opposed to a carpeted one when munching.

[Superman]

To be more succinct, my point was that the homosexual community should take the Church's words perhaps more calmly. The Church is not saying that heterosexuals are well-adjusted, centered, rational, disciplined and restrained.....and homosexuals are "disordered." We are all disordered. That is my point. Disciplined and restrained and responsible is what we are supposed to be. Selfish and immature is what we actually are.

Jim's co-worker demonstrates the discipline necessary to avoid eating red meat on Fridays.....and sinfully boinks his squeeze daily. According to my observations, that makes him human. The Church does not turn its back on him, and neither do I. Same with homosexuals. And people who eat meat on Fridays. And people who drive past stranded motorists. Et cetera.

It's not just some of us who need to demonstrate some discipline and self-denial. It is ALL of us. Homosexuals, according to the Church, have the grace of an extra urge to deny. Well, not really extra. We all want to bone the babe down the hall. Or dude. Whatever.......

[Drago]

We're going to need pic's of the 19 year old carpet muncher.

[Moneyguy1]

If we have so much trouble accepting each other's differences, imagine if an alien race actually did visit us.....

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I see homosexuality as a psychological disorder, plain and simple. It's a mild pathology, but a pathology nonetheless. Kind of like how certain individuals are predisposed to getting themselves into situations they can't handle (abusive relationships, etc.), predisposed to alcoholism or drug use or inclinations to engage in behavior that's harmful to onesself. Extreme manifiestations include things like cutting or self-mutilation, but I sort of doubt homosexuality quite rises to quite that level of pathology (at least for most).

It certainly ain't normal. But whatever floats yer boat. I just ain't a particularly big fan of it.

[jluetjen]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro

Religion is funny like that. Double standards. I worked with a Catholic guy that refused to eat meat on Friday but would fornicate with his girlfriend daily. How is eating meat a bigger wrong that fornication. I could never understand it.

Admittedly I'm not Catholic, but I'm not aware of the bible ever saying it's a sin to eat meat on Fridays. Was there an 11th Commandment that I missed? I know that the 8th Commandment says something about not committing adultery though.

As far as homosexuality is concerned, you could say that actions speak louder then words (see Genesis 19 verses 1 through 29). To paraphrase: The men of Sodom asked Lot regarding a couple of male guests that he had " Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them". Obviously a bad situation at many levels. Anyhow, Lot even offers up his own daughter (!) to the mob to try to distract them from assaulting his guests, but the mob pays no attention to his offer. Anyhow, we all know what happened to Sodom. At a minimum this suggests that God is pretty violently against unsolicited or forced homosexuality. I think that most people would agree with God in that matter -- Rape is just bad. Earlier in the previous chapter, God is visiting with Abraham, and says " The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know". Alas, the specifics of this sin are not described.

On the other hand, the Biblical tradition* is that God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Adam, and a then endorsed the relationship of Adam and Eve to procreate. Homosexuality has never received such an endorsement in the Bible. It will take a little more searching to find other references to the subject. It's not clear to me if Jesus ever discussed the subject. So this would suggest certainly that God's preference for people (if you care about such things) is for sexual relations to be between a man and a women.

I guess my point is that when someone (or many people) claim biblical support for their specific view, it never hurts to check it out. At the least you may learn something.

* I'm trying to avoid the whole truth of the bible debate by answering the question within the context of the Bible. Naturally, if you dismiss the Bible, then none of what I've said will mean anything, so just let it go.

[pmajka]

artichoke -1

[Moneyguy1]

The Friday meat thing was a Papal order, not a doctrine. So goes the rumor; his relatives were in the seafood business......It is no longer an every Friday event; I think it only applies to Lent.

[jluetjen]

Oh, that explains it. My ancesters were excommunicated prior to that email!

[dtw]

Originally posted by BSiple
I prefer a bare floor as opposed to a carpeted one when munching.

Wall to wall carpeting is a downer. I don't mind a tasteful and well-positioned throw-rug though.

Homosexuality? That's a tough one, I'm not smart enough to deal with it. Going to have to leave that one up to God. All I know is that my attraction to Jack Bauer in no way reflects on my sexuality.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I see homosexuality as a psychological disorder, plain and simple. It's a mild pathology, but a pathology nonetheless. Kind of like how certain individuals are predisposed to getting themselves into situations they can't handle (abusive relationships, etc.), predisposed to alcoholism or drug use or inclinations to engage in behavior that's harmful to onesself. Extreme manifiestations include things like cutting or self-mutilation, but I sort of doubt homosexuality quite rises to quite that level of pathology (at least for most).

It certainly ain't normal. But whatever floats yer boat. I just ain't a particularly big fan of it.

+1

Gays are very much predisposed to give into hedonistic urges; far more so than the general population. Their ranks are burdened with exceptionaly high levels of drug abuse and promiscuity, to name just two examples where this tendency manifests itself. The rate of serious drug addiction is several times the norm, and the rate of promiscuity is several hundred times the norm.

This isn't just some "intolerant Christian conservative redneck" piping up, either. They discuss these problems freely in their own community. They acknowledge they have problems in these areas. Yet, it seems when folks outside those ranks discuss (or even mention) these problems, the hatefull labels get applied. The accusations of "intolerance". It is simply not PC to discuss these problems frankly. To even hint that gays are prone to self-destructive, hedonistic behavior, is blasphamy in this modern age.

They, and their appologists, are trying to brow-beat the rest of us into acknowledging they are "normal", when they are anything but. Not going to happen. Especially not with the church. So, once again, the gay community and its supporters whip out the "hate and intolerance" mantra. They are incapable of understanding that the church, and some of the rest of us, hold the line on this out of love and concern for them. No, it's just easier to sit there and think we "hate" them. That way they never have to take a look in the mirror...

[Moneyguy1]

I am asking because I do not know...

Is the alleged hedonistic urges and propensity for certain dangerous behaviors a result of internal conflict? Is is possible that such behavior is an attempt to compensate for behavior that even they feel is somehow "wrong"? In other words, an internal control of some kind that is overruled and that leads to doubt?

Like I said, I do not know what drives people in their choices; but I am curious abvout other paople's opinions on the subject.