Making F1 more competitive

[Aerkuld]

Reading the NASCAR thread has me thinking...

I love F1, but there are times when it gets a little dull. I would love to see the field shaken up a little, a bit more overtaking etc.
But how do you do that without fiddling it like NASCAR?

All practicalities aside, what about allowing the drivers to qualify as normal but awarding points for qualifying position. Then allocating cars to drivers for the race on the basis of 'fastest driver gets slowest car' for the race with the same points system used for finishing position?

How about banning wings or other aerodynamic down-force generating devices, and raising the minimum ground clearance to 12"?

Making the driver get out and change his own tires and refuel?

Pit-stops where the crews have to wear giant size gloves?

What would you like to see?

Throw out some ideas, who cares about the real world!

[Joeaksa]

You would get a lot more and better responses if the options were more serious.

Come on, 12 inch ground clearance on cars? Why not make them race "lifted pickup trucks" then? Swapping drivers around in various cars is never going to happen due to the contracts that take months to work out.

This last season was one of the best in the last 5-6 years but they are getting a bit silly at times IMHO. Finally allowing the cars to have tire changes helped, but this two race engine limit is at times a bit much. We should be racing, not in an endurance contest.

Max Mosley needs to find a job driving a street sweeper and let some fresh blood in the sport. Maybe he can take Bernie with him...

The new 2008 engine rules are also a joke. We need to curb costs somehow but Formula One has always been a chance to engineer the best ideas, not stop all development as is proposed for an entire year.

[David]

If they'd just get rid of the carbon brakes, I think there'd be a lot more passing.

[kang]

It’s kind of hard to have it both ways. Either you have a spec series, like Champ Car, where everyone has the same chassis, engine and tires, or you require (F1) or allow innovation.

With a spec series, you end up like NASCAR or IRL, where they have way more wing and tire than engine. They can go three wide all the way around an oval track. I suppose this is exciting to some, but to me it is even more boring than an F1 race where one team dominates due to their technical superiority.

For me, the technical side of F1 is one of the things that fascinates me about the sport. I don’t want anything to take away from this, and mandating things like wings and engines, etc, can do that. This new “run your engine for two years” rule bothers me a bit. I want to see technical advancement on a regular basis. Holding them back artificially seems counter to the idea of F1.

The downside of this can be boring races when one team is way ahead of the rest of the field, but historically this is rather rare. Mostly there are a few teams capable of a win, a few in mid-pack and a few at the back of the field. Which team is where can vary year to year. Remember when Williams and McLaren were at the top of the field?

I would rather risk the occasional year or two of boring races than turn F1 into IRL or NASCAR.

Also, remember that next year they will all be on the same tire. This will tighten things up a bit.

[Nostril Cheese]

machine guns

[Aerkuld]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
You would get a lot more and better responses if the options were more serious.

Come on, 12 inch ground clearance on cars? Why not make them race "lifted pickup trucks" then? Swapping drivers around in various cars is never going to happen due to the contracts that take months to work out.

...

The new 2008 engine rules are also a joke. We need to curb costs somehow but Formula One has always been a chance to engineer the best ideas, not stop all development as is proposed for an entire year.

Joeaksa - I wasn't being totally serious, I just wanted to get some different ideas. I know realistically these things are not going to get anywhere, but I wanted to see the results of some far-out thinking (or no to little thinking! ).

I hate the thought of really making F1 a circus, but I would like to see a return to the mid 60's style of cars with no aero. Obviously the 60's cars were very dangerous, but what could you do with similar cars to modern standards?
The 12" ground clearance, OK ridiculously excessive, but it would stop ground effects from being considered.
Swapping drivers in cars isn't going to work realistically, but imagine IF it was possible, you would really see who can drive anything fast, and who can set up their own car to be fast. I just think it would be interesting that's all.

I agree that F1 is an engineers sport, but costs do need to be kept in control, so how would you do it?

Maybe giving everyone a set of components, such as brakes, transmission etc. then letting them put it together in a car of their own design is the way to go. That way you would be able to do things like stopping the use of carbon brakes, as 125shifter suggested.

[kang]

This has been posted before, but it is still way cool:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7393939630149644203

[cashflyer]

Make 22" spinnaz a requirement.

How about a 100% no-limit "run what you brung" race. That would surely make it interesting.

[Az911]

Originally posted by Aerkuld


I agree that F1 is an engineers sport, but costs do need to be kept in control, so how would you do it?

Why do cost need to be kept in control? F1 has always been expensive and will continue to be so if they want to stay the most advanced from of motor racing.

[Owain]

With your question you're assuming that F1 is about the driver. That's not the case. F1 is not a spec series where the abilities of the driver, or any one team member are paramount. It has always been a test of the driver, the engineer, the mechanic, the team organizer, the people who get the sponsorship money, the accountants, essentially everyone who is involved with the team all at the same time.

Personally I don't think that the F1 formula is broken and would like to see it go back to less restrictive rules, not more. All the new regulations for engines are crap. Let them inovate and let the best team win.

And, F1 costs are kept in check. They can only spend as much money as they can gather, and no more. That's the way it should be.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Want to see innovation? Get rid of the rules.

Simply say "vehicle must be a 4-wheeled vehicle, all 4 wheels must remain in contact with the ground at all times and power must be transmitted via those wheels to move the vehicle (no rocket or jet engines using thrust to create the movement). Maybe an overall size or weight limit, no deliberate running other vehicles off the track - that's it. Race starts on such-and-such a date at such-and-such a time, first guy to the line wins".

Then you'd see some REAL innovation.

[sammyg2]

leave it alone, except make the tracks bigger, wider, with longer straights.
That way there would be a much bigger trade off between downforce and top speed.

[scottmandue]

Limit areo to front and rear wing only, limit the total area of those wings but unlimited shape.

Maximum length, width, and weight limits.

No active suspension or traction control.

Unlimited engine, tires, and brakes.

[nostatic]

one of the big issues (if you believe Steve Matchett) is that the aero packages make the trailing car unstable when they get close to the car in front. Modify the aero requirements to address that and it could go a long way.

I'm against a spec series. We already have those. I don't mind some sort of engine rules though, as it is great to see how the engineers deal with certain limitations (ie two races). Maybe just make the penalty for a blown engine a bit less.

[mjohnson]

Run every race in the wet? That was an entertaining one this last season.

How about giving each team an energy limit? Any fuel and engine type within reason. Everyone gets the same number of BTUs. That might open up some innovation.

mike
'78SC

[Steve PH]

The biggest problem is that some of the tracks used, just don't cater for such fast cars and simply dont have enough room for over taking. I can forgive Monaco because it has such hugh character but other especialy the Hungary should be axed.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

No suggestions for "Push to Pass"?

I love Champ Car but utterly can't stand that rule. . .

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Want to see innovation? Get rid of the rules.

Simply say "vehicle must be a 4-wheeled vehicle, all 4 wheels must remain in contact with the ground at all times and power must be transmitted via those wheels to move the vehicle (no rocket or jet engines using thrust to create the movement). Maybe an overall size or weight limit, no deliberate running other vehicles off the track - that's it. Race starts on such-and-such a date at such-and-such a time, first guy to the line wins".

Then you'd see some REAL innovation.

This is what it used to be then the sport got regulated. Gone downhill since.

Personally I would really like to see the auto gearbox removed and make the guys have to shift a lever again. It was a joy watching Monaco years ago and the guys dicing against everyone.

Do not like the way the sport is going. I was sent a survey by the FIA earlier this year and filled it out but guess that there were not enough votes like mine.

[artplumber]

Eliminate all driver aids (including semiauto boxes).

Narrower tires and track (width of the tire centerlines not the racetrack).

Limit downforce at a given speed. (measure in a wind tunnel - team pays).

There hasn't been a real "Driver's" championship for years.

[VincentVega]

I like the idea of less driver aids and less contact patch. Maybe removing from and read aero devices is another option, I'm sure a ton of $$ is spent there.

One thing I dont like about F1 is how fragile the cars seem to be. Rather than grenade with the smallest but of contact I would much rather see a driver work his way back up to the front. The last thing I want to see is the bump pass, or whatever it's called in Nascar, but making the cars a little more durable would be nice.