New Digital SLR Camera - Going back to the store...

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
My wifes D-50 is the same way. Honestly, at first it was an issue for me but I figured it had to have something to do with the fact that it was SLR.

It has everything to do with it being an SLR. The digital what not can't read until the mirror moves out of the way.

If I want a preview, I use the smaller camera. I like my Nikon since it's fast and I had useda 6006 for years. Low learning curve. The D50 didn't allow me to adjust te F-stops IIRC. I borrowed a friends and found that irritating, but I got some GOOD photos just the same.

[RallyJon]

Originally posted by Sonic dB
Anyone know anything about the Canon Rebel XT?

My wife has one. Had the original Rebel before. The XT is much faster and better all around but the body is very small. OK for her, but it feels too small in my hands.

With a good lens it takes amazing photos. But unless you're a fanatic, you buy this level of camera for the features, as Wayne discovered.

[pwd72s]

FWIW, a pro (automotive photography) I know recently emailed that pros are dropping Nikon...Canon is the name for digital work.
(edit) since I find myself not going to P-car club events these days, I decided to skip buying a digital camera...think I want a nice custom pool cue more.

[Dottore]

Originally posted by pwd72s
FWIW, a pro (automotive photography) I know recently emailed that pros are dropping Nikon...Canon is the name for digital work.
(

I can confirm this sentiment from a couple of friends who are very serious digital photographers.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally posted by VaSteve
It has everything to do with it being an SLR. The digital what not can't read until the mirror moves out of the way.
If I want a preview, I use the smaller camera.

My old Olympus E-20N is a true digital TTL SLR and has live-preview. Funny thing is that I NEVER use it! I guess coming from traditional 35mm SLR's, old habits (like relying on the viewfinder) die hard. Taking pictures while looking at the camera's screen just doesn't feel right (I also have trust issues with these DSLR LCD screens). Battery life is another factor as well.

Originally posted by CurtEgerer
To answer your question though, it's tough to beat the Olympus 'pro-sumer' line of cameras (E330, E500)! One feature they have that has me considering a switch is the dust-free CCD. That is a MAJOR problem with most digital SLR's, that most people are not aware of. You wind up with tiny black specs all over your images. I use mine (a Fuji S1) in fairly harsh environments and I've got to clean the CCD every 2-3 weeks. It's a bit of a PITA!

+1!

[lendaddy]

I'm guessing wayne uses it to take pics for his books. So imagine him finding creative places to set the cam so it will capture what he needs it to see. From wherever that is there may or may not be room for a person to get behind it and look through a viewfinder. Also the extra time it takes to get behind it/adjust/get behind it/adjust/etc....

Just a guess, but that's what popped into my head.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by pwd72s
FWIW, a pro (automotive photography) I know recently emailed that pros are dropping Nikon...Canon is the name for digital work.

not so sure about that. The main dogma i hear these days is Canon for sports/high speed (long lenses) and Nikon for macro. I don't know anybody who has sold their Nikon to buy a Canon.

[masraum]

I have an XT. I'm 6'2" and 200# with average size hands/build. I heard/read a lot of people say that the XT is too small. I found that I grew accustomed to it pretty quickly. I'd have loved to have the 20D, but when I bought I just couldn't justify the extra $. I love my Canon. Another good place to go for Canon info is here.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=9

Also, you can do a search, there was a good digital SLR thread here several months back that addressed the D70 vs Rebel XT thing.

Basically, I'd say that the D70 and Rebel XT are comparable cameras. Each has something that it manages to trump the other with. Ultimately I've got a history with Canon cameras, so I went with the Canon, but I don't think you'd go wrong with the D70. Now there is the D80, the D50, the new Rebel XTi, the 30D and the 5D (sigh, full frame). How much do you want to spend?

[nostatic]

Wayne, don't blame Nikon because you didn't read the reviews

If you are shooting at odd angles, then you need a display that also swivels and rotates. My Canon A620 is great for that type of thing. And it takes great photos. But not as good as my D70. Everything in life is a compromise.

You might want to check out the Panasonic DMC-FZ50. I have the FZ20 and it is great for a wide range of applications. Mine has a fixed LCD but it looks like the 50 swivels out. The upside it is great at the track and does decent macro. The downside is that it is noisy in low light and at high iso, so if you shoot a lot indoors that could be an issue.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/

[nostatic]

Well, I wasn't confused/disappointed but then again I knew what I was getting into. The basic design obviates live preview unless you play tricks.

The truth of the matter is that most people don't really need an SLR. Most of my favorite work has been done with a Canon 5MP Elph. But I really like macro and once you slap a 105mm Nikon macro lense on a good body you can't go back, at least for some shots.

Check out the Panasonic. Great camera that has a huge zoom range. If you don't need that, any of the high-end point-and-shoot cameras that have a flip/swivel LCD will work great for you. You just won't look like a pro squinting through the viewfinder

[Super_Dave_D]

The plus side is that the non preview cameras can take up to 700 pics on a single battery charge - preview cams cant do that. I am on my 3rd Canon (30D) now and just love it. No normal digital can start up as fast or shoot as fast. You can go out all day and not carry extra memory anddont have to worry about battery. I also have a small point and shoot Sont that I put in my pockey for the casual point and shoot times.

[StevoRocket]

I have a Sony F828, great for using waist high like a twin lens reflex-see the screen (switches from screen to electronic viewfinder) - terrific for over the crowd shots and candids.

Since then I bought D70 and D200 Nikons - for super fast shutter repeat shots in motor sport and interchangeable lenses. Wish they did video like the Sony though.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
I did read all of the reviews. I read Consumer Reports' last month's issue. I read the WSJ article on Tuesday. No one mentioned this basic problem with SLRs. The trouble is that the reviews are written with the basic understanding that SLR cameras don't have "live preview". I guess it's like writing an intro article on the Porsche 911 without mentioning that the engine is in the back. The authors just assume that you know that.

LOL, it's exactly like that. You're supposed to know it.

This something like being a muscle car guy, buying a 911 and hating it because it's not good in the 1/4 mile, it's hard to drive and doesn't have cupholders.

It's good for what it does, which is not what you want it to do.

I love my D70, it's extremely fast, I can take photos of my son who's 19 months and doens't stop moiving. I get great depth of field to blur out stuff in the background (our house is a mess - 19 month old son ) I can fool around with the zoom and take the photos I want over and over fooling with the settings until my wife yells at me.

If I want to have someone take my photo, I put it on full auto and let them fire away. If I want to take photos of my engine to post here, it stays in the bag and I use my wife's camera..some Casio thing.

I disagree that preview "before" you shoot is one of the points of a digital camera. All I want to know about is if I got the shot. When I got my Olympus in 2000, it took me forever to use the screen...people who saw me using it must have thought I was crazy!!

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by nostatic
not so sure about that. The main dogma i hear these days is Canon for sports/high speed (long lenses) and Nikon for macro. I don't know anybody who has sold their Nikon to buy a Canon.

I do...and he's been shooting cars for a living for several decades.
(edit) That's why I asked his opinion on what camera to buy. But Gee, I guess I should have asked Notstatic instead?

[Steve Carlton]

From the link I posted earlier, the Olympus E-330 has the feature you're looking for, perhaps other Olympus models as well. Also, the Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro has it. Also the Canon D20a, but I think that's discontinued.

[alf]

Wayne, as mentioned above SLR cameras do not have a preview because of how the mechanicals work.. The reviews might have incorrectly assumed that this was understood broadly. It took me a couple of days to get used to that with my D50.

For in car, tight spot use get one of those where the LCD swivels like Todd mentioned. Even better is to get the Nikon S10 where the entirre lens barrel rotates.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by pwd72s
I do...and he's been shooting cars for a living for several decades.
(edit) That's why I asked his opinion on what camera to buy. But Gee, I guess I should have asked Notstatic instead?

Didn't say that. Just saying that I hear different dogma and don't know anyone that has sold their Nikon rigs for Canon. And since I work with "the industry" I know a fair amount of photog/graphics guys. But I'll defer to your single data point

[CurtEgerer]

Wayne - for 'drive-by shooting' like you describe, a live viewfinder is essential. I forgot about the 600 images you took at Rennsport

The Canon guys have been predicting Nikon's downfall since the release of the very cool F1 in 1971 (it used this celluloid-like material to record images - I think they called it film? ).

Speaking of film cameras, there are some absolutely INCREDIBLE deals on eBay right now. The market is officially dead on film cameras. I still use my Nikon N90s and Leica M6 occasionally. I'm thinking of picking up an F5 - they're going for $400 in like new condition!!! Alum alloy body, titanium viewfinder, etc. These had an MSRP of $3350!!!

[VaSteve]

Word of caution. Nikon is very clear that warrenties do not apply for cameras bought on Ebay.

[jyl]

The feature of "live preview" in a SLR is very unusual.

As already mentioned, in the traditional SLR, light goes through the lens, reflects off a mirror, and then to the prism and viewfinder eyepiece. When you press the shutter, the mirror swings up and out of the way, the light goes directly to the shutter that covers the film, the shutter opens to expose the film to the light, and the picture is taken, after which the mirror wings back down. That's why, since film SLRs were invented some 60+ years ago, the viewfinder goes black for a fraction of a second as you take the picture. You cannot view the image at the exact same instant that you take the picture.

About 30 years ago, there were a few film SLRs which allowed you to view the image exactly when the picture is taken. They used a mirror that was only partly silvered, so part of the light is reflected to the prism and part goes straight to the shutter and film. The mirror is fixed in place; it does not swing up and down. This was done to permit taking very rapid consecutive pictures using a motor drive. For example in the 1970s Canon had a special high-speed F that took 5 frames per second (if I recall right) using this design. These were used by some sports photographers. The disadvantage was that less light got to the prism and to the film, so the image looked dimmer through the viewfinder and you had to use either faster film or a longer exposure. The fixed part-silvered mirror designs became unnecessary as the camera companies learned to make light mirrors that moved faster. By the 1980s, conventional SLRs with swinging mirrors could take 5 fps.

Now step into the digital SLR era. Almost every digital SLR uses the traditional swinging mirror design, and the image sensor is simply placed where the film used to be, behind the shutter. Thus light cannot reach the image sensor until the mirror swings up and the shutter opens. This makes it quite difficult to have a so-called "live preview" feature, where the image is visible on an LCD screen before the picture is actually taken.

There is one digital SLR that does have live preview, the Olympus E-volt 330. See a review with an explanation of this feature at http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E330/E330A.HTM You'll see that it was pretty complicated for Olympus to add this feature, and there are some tradeoffs. The viewfinder is dimmer, and in one mode there is no autofocus (but there is another mode, which preserves autofocus).