Why doesn't the US have "Targas"?

[tcar]

Originally posted by svandamme
no offence, but that's a load of bullcrap

Hey, just trying to help the guy...

I know that, but it sounded as if he was thinking Porsche Targa, not the other kind... didn't see the need to go into a long wiki discussion.

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by tcar
A Targa is a type of race taking place on public roads. Most famous - the Targa Florio in Sicily.

Porsche celebrated victories in the TF by naming it's new cabrio with rollbar body style the *Targa* in the late 60's. Porsche won more races in the 60's than everyone else combined.


Uhhh, the Australian Porsche Targa is right hand drive.

Targa means something akin to representing prestige. Term is fairly old(by American standards). You could also apply it to say - a horse race, whatever. Its like Grande before Prix, etc.

So realy, the reason we don't have "Targas" in the US, is Italian isn't the national language, we're more likely to use an American word to describe some sort of big race we do over here.(Brickyard 500, etc)

[svandamme]

Originally posted by tcar
Hey, just trying to help the guy...

I know that, but it sounded as if he was thinking Porsche Targa, not the other kind... didn't see the need to go into a long wiki discussion.

i know, but if you going to clarify something to someone
then be accurate , don't confuse more by changing the name of a known thing, aka Targa = a type of race, no , Rallying is a type of Race...

[obrut]

anyhoo, we aussies are lucky as i think we have 4 or 5 to choose from and two of those are, in my opinion, the two best targa (tarmac rally) events in the world.

if any of you folk want to ship a car down and compete, then i'll buy the first beer!

[scottmandue]

Don't know if this helps but I recorded the race(s) (three episodes) we are discussing and in the end it was it was divided into four races. Two types of cars, modern and classic and those cars were further divided into a timed rally or a lowest elapsed time rally.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by obrut
anyhoo, we aussies are lucky as i think we have 4 or 5 to choose from and two of those are, in my opinion, the two best targa (tarmac rally) events in the world.

i really don't know where this comes from
but Targa does not mean "tarmac rally"

and for best tarmac rally events in the world... have you seen any others?

Boucles de Spa? Rally de Monte Carlo? Corsica? UK? Condroz, etc etc...
there's plenty of Tarmac around these parts, and a long tradition of rallying on them

[obrut]

> but Targa does not mean "tarmac rally"

i don't recall saying it did?

> Boucles de Spa? Rally de Monte Carlo? Corsica? UK? Condroz,

i thought Rally de Monte Carlo was a WRC event, whereas this thread has mainly been about older/classic cars etc. do these allow older/non-current cars to compete without speed restriction? if yes, pls forward me any links you have as i would love to learn more about them.

[J1NX3D]

Originally posted by svandamme
i really don't know where this comes from
but Targa does not mean "tarmac rally"

and for best tarmac rally events in the world... have you seen any others?

Boucles de Spa? Rally de Monte Carlo? Corsica? UK? Condroz, etc etc...
there's plenty of Tarmac around these parts, and a long tradition of rallying on them

Looks like a few posts were lost when pelican servers went down

Anywho, I wrote something like:

Targa New Zealand, Targa Tasmania, Targa Adelaide, Targa Tauranga/ Rotorua, Targa New Foundland.

You are right, 'targa' does not mean 'tarmac rally', but for international Targa franchise ( i use this term lightly), for the organisers, promoters and contestants the Targa is taglined as a tarmac rally which differentiates itself from the WRC ( which also has events in both NZ and Australia, Canada doesnt tho) which are both gravel and tarmac.

yes, there is tarmac rally worldwide, but they're not necessarily a Targa

[svandamme]

yep ,

i posted this link regarding the many oldtimer tarmac events around here and how i doubt that anyone can claim targa as a trademark anywhere, or get it listed in a dictionary as "tarmac event"

http://www.oldtimersweb.be/historicrally/fotolinks/home_rally2006.htm

again, we have like 20 Historic rallies a year in Belgium alone, and i'm sure it's no different in the UK...
they generally are at the same time as the real competition , usually they come by after the competition drivers, and drive a reduced number of stages... they are the crowd pleasers as the modern cars tend to be boring to look at due to more grip, less noise and no RWD...

either way , we have plenty of em

the pictures in the above link don't do it justice, as they are mostly done by fans on a single spot, snapping all the different cars passing.. you only get a narrow snapshot, difficult to capture the rally thing from one view point..

[svandamme]

here's a vid from the Eifel 2006 Rally
mixed, modern and old cars alike
gives a better idea including what type of cars you can expect over here... 911RS's, Alpines, Lancia Stratos , Audi Turbo's all sorts of former Group B monsters , even that 911 Safari is in it...





here's a vid from Ypres historic

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6273779424729881279

another good one

http://www.zippyvideos.com/2888356801791116/historic_rally_compilation/

[Jim Richards]

Doesn't Targa come from the Italian word targhe, which translates to plates?

[svandamme]

i thought it meant Shield in italian...?


EDIT , just looked it up , licence plate
which i guess is some sort of shield/badge

[Jim Richards]

What type of trophy was awarded for the TF?

[J1NX3D]

Originally posted by svandamme
i doubt that anyone can claim targa as a trademark anywhere, or get it listed in a dictionary as "tarmac event"

rofl, from Targa NZs own site:
http://www.targa.co.nz/What_is_Targa_754.aspx?pageid=754

He's differentiated Targa from Rally though thats not the majorities perception of what the Targas is.

but i think i can see where you are coming from.

the 'Targa of ######' events that I've listed use the word 'targa' in their events name. They're at international level and are tarmac only events based on rally.

The reason I loosely described it as a franchise was in the name 'Targa of ######' only. The events arent treated as rounds and dont work towards a scoring as many driver or make points to win a championship like WRC.

when you think about it, saying 'Targa of ######' is the same as 'Rally of ######'- its just a word.

Originally posted by svandamme
again, we have like 20 Historic rallies a year in Belgium alone, and i'm sure it's no different in the UK...
they generally are at the same time as the real competition , usually they come by after the competition drivers, and drive a reduced number of stages... they are the crowd pleasers as the modern cars tend to be boring to look at due to more grip, less noise and no RWD...

We do this also as part of regional rallies and WRC rally of nz and as part of Targa NZ. I've worked on start crews for WRC NZ and for regional rallies and they are definitely a crowd pleaser. Especially a yellow thunderbird with a female driving team that race in both Rallies and Targa.

check out the entry list for this years Targa NZ, its just as varied http://www.targa.co.nz/resultsHtmlTarga2006/entrylist.htm

Originally posted by Jim Richards
What type of trophy was awarded for the TF?

Its ironic you post here, your name is the same as an Australiasian who usually wins Targas in Australiasia.

He races with a 996 turbo, GT3 or GT2. I remember one year he raced at Targa tasmania in the GT2... and it rained. A lot! i think he came second or 3rd. In Targa NZ his main competition is always a skyline GTR and an RX7 batmobile.

he also raced a 924 carrera gtr at nurburgring!

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by mAd924
Its ironic you post here, your name is the same as an Australiasian who usually wins Targas in Australiasia.

He races with a 996 turbo, GT3 or GT2. I remember one year he raced at Targa tasmania in the GT2... and it rained. A lot! i think he came second or 3rd. In Targa NZ his main competition is always a skyline GTR and an RX7 batmobile.

he also raced a 924 carrera gtr at nurburgring!

I'm pleased to share a name with someone so well renowned in motorsports. If only I had 1% of his talent...

[svandamme]

mad924... no matter what they say , those "targa's" are still covered by the Rallysport classification, "timed event's on public roads"

so essentially , it is just a name by some organizer, it's not an official league sport that differentiates itself a great deal from say WRC
they just have their own rulebook and regulations and classifications outside the FIA system...

but in the end, it's still Rallying , in fact it's probably closer to what Rallying was back in the early days, then WRC is...

it all started by some guys with crazy fast machines driving from one City to another one , in the old days not even on closed roads...

[J1NX3D]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
I'm pleased to share a name with someone so well renowned in motorsports. If only I had 1% of his talent...

his racing career is extensive. amongst other things hes raced in the GT3 cup series and Aussie V8 Supercars series.

oops, also i meant le mans 24hrs 1981 not nurburgring...

so essentially , it is just a name by some organizer, it's not an official league sport that differentiates itself a great deal from say WRC
they just have their own rulebook and regulations and classifications outside the FIA system...

yep, pretty much

it all started by some guys with crazy fast machines driving from one City to another one , in the old days not even on closed roads...

yes, i love collecting photos online of those old races.

[Aerkuld]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Doesn't Targa come from the Italian word targhe, which translates to plates?

"The race was created in 1906 by the wealthy pioneer race driver and automobile enthusiast, Vincenzo Florio, who had started the Coppa Florio race in Brescia, Lombardy in 1900."

Coppa = Cup

So his Brescia event would have been the "Florio Cup"

Targa comes from the word Targe, which is an old word for shield.

So it makes sense, does it not, that for his new event Vincenzo Florio may have chosen a shield instead of a cup, and called his event the "Florio Shield", or "Targa Florio"

"Vincenzo Florio wanted to award a special prize for the winner of the Targa Florio and he commissioned the first Targa Florio trophy from Ren Lalique, famous for his glass radiator mascots. Lalique fashioned a rectangular (not round) plate in bronze. This plate (or Targa) carried a bas-relief rendering of a racing car against a Sicilian background, with the sky filled in with blue enamel."


Thanks Jim!

[Jim Richards]

Makes sense to me.

[dagriff]

Perhaps the main reason for calling these new events "Targas", is to establish a connection with the past & thereby capture an air of respectability and at the same time help with the negative reactions of asking "Can we close your roads for a Rally Special Stage".
Unfortunately, looking at the level of preparation of some of the cars in the Targa Newfoundland this year, it to will price itself out of the "Amateur for fun" category.

BTW, best spectator comment for the Targa Newfie: "They drive like locals on a Saturday night, only they aren't drunk".