Caution: Religious Content - Finally someone gets it right

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

FINALLY someone has figured out that the biggest turn-off to people about religion is overzealous, evangalical followers who bash people over the head with it and use it as the basis for imposing a particular political viewpoint. Mixing politics and religion is ALWAYS bad and benefits neither the political entity/institution nor the religion.

Even more astonishing considering who this guy is (hint, look who his parents are). Although he's not the most articulate lad and some of his opinions may be simply rebelling against the "ram-it-down-their-throats" tactics used by his parents and undoubtedly those that surrounded him growing up, this guy's got it figured out.

If more so-called "Christians" walked the walk instead of only talking the talk all the time and let the message speak for itself instead of interpreting it through the lens of opinion all the time, perhaps Christianity would be (1) more true to its supposed message and (2) more well-received.

Good read in any case:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/13/bakker.brown.commentary/index.html

What the hell happened to Christianity?
By Jay Bakker and Marc Brown

Editor's note: Jay Bakker, son of former Praise The Lord leaders Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye Messner, is minister of Revolution Church and subject of a new documentary series, "One Punk Under God," on Sundance Channel. Marc Brown is a Revolution staff member.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- What the hell happened? Where did we go wrong? How was Christianity co-opted by a political party? Why are Christians supporting laws that force others to live by their standards? The answers to these questions are integral to the survival of Christianity.

While the current state of Christianity might seem normal and business-as-usual to some, most see through the judgment and hypocrisy that has permeated the church for so long. People witness this and say to themselves, "Why would I want to be a part of that?" They are turned off by Christians and eventually, to Christianity altogether. We can't even count the number of times someone has given us a weird stare or completely brushed us off when they discover we work for a church.

So when did the focus of Christianity shift from the unconditional love and acceptance preached by Christ to the hate and condemnation spewed forth by certain groups today? Some say it was during the rise of Conservative Christianity in the early 1980s with political action groups like the Moral Majority. Others say it goes way back to the 300s, when Rome's Christian Emperor Constantine initiated a set of laws limiting the rights of Roman non-Christians. Regardless of the origin, one thing is crystal clear: It's not what Jesus stood for.

His parables and lessons were focused on love and forgiveness, a message of "come as you are, not as you should be." The bulk of his time was spent preaching about helping the poor and those who are unable to help themselves. At the very least, Christians should be counted on to lend a helping hand to the poor and others in need.

This brings us to the big issues of American Christianity: Abortion and gay marriage. These two highly debatable topics will not be going away anytime soon. Obviously, the discussion centers around whether they are right or wrong, but is the screaming really necessary? After years of witnessing the dark side of religion, Marc and I think not.

Christians should be able to look past their differences and agree to disagree. This allows people to discuss issues with respect for one another. Christians are called to love others just as they are, without an agenda. Only then will Christianity see a return to its roots: Loving God with all of your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself.

The Apostle Paul describes this idea of love beautifully in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7: "Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance."

But don't take our word for it; look at what Jesus and his followers stood for in his time and what Christianity stands for today. Then come to your own conclusion.

Rikao4 · 12-14-2006, 09:14 AM

To bad he makes sense.. thus doomed,
the "Christians" are going to go after him with gusto.
Rika

id10t · 12-14-2006, 09:15 AM

"Jesus, save me from your followers!"

rammstein · 12-14-2006, 09:18 AM

He is exactly right.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

I think that they've pretty well nailed the subject on the head. It strikes me that Jay is most likely one of the best things to have come out of the Bakker ministry.

Porsche-O-Phile, you know,...

... this feels kind of...

well wierd to be agreeing with you.

skipdup · 12-14-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rikao4
To bad he makes sense.. thus doomed,
the "Christians" are going to go after him with gusto.
Rika

I don't know... I think most Christians would agree with this article. Seems like I've seen many of this boards Christians "preaching" very similiar ideas.

- Skip

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

Back in 1936, in a book called THE ROAD TO WIGAN PIER, George Orwell wrote, "Like Christians, the biggest deterrent to Socialism is its adherents". People have been thinking like this for a long time, just probably not very often.

Jims5543 · 12-14-2006, 09:27 AM

I agree 100% with the article, go back to the Abortion thread, my stance is simple, its not for me but your free to do what you like. Its your life live it how you may, just leave me alone to worship how I want and we will all be happy.

It's ironic that this article comes out so close to Christmas, a time of year where non religous people are suddenly religous celebrating Christs birth with gusto.

Rikao4 · 12-14-2006, 09:33 AM

Skip, the christian side of me agrees with him, the guy on the podium tells me I'm doomed,
me..I just stay home and read the book.
Rika

skipdup · 12-14-2006, 09:49 AM

I hear ya Bruce.

scottmandue · 12-14-2006, 10:02 AM

Too true.

Sadly many "Christians" have no idea what Jesus taught or was like.

VaSteve · 12-14-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro

It's ironic that this article comes out so close to Christmas, a time of year where non religous people are suddenly religous celebrating Christs birth with gusto.

Not ironic at all.....he's got a show coming out on Sundance Channel soon

He does a make a very good point however.

djmcmath · 12-14-2006, 11:44 AM

Hear, hear. There's a rising number of Christians who are realizing that whatever it is they're doing isn't working. The state of the Christian Church in this country is simply astounding: 9 out of 10 churches are stagnant or in decline, and the 1 that is registering growth is doing so almost entirely at the expense of the other 9. Why? What are we doing wrong?

(sigh) I suppose I could write a dissertation on the topic, having been a part of an awful lot of failing churches over the years, and as the son of an old testament theologian who no longer routinely attends any church at all. The problems that are rampant are just so bold: hypocrites, performance-based Christianity, people who go to church rather than _be_ the church, the whole shallowness of it all.

I stumbled across a church a couple of years ago that was really fantastic, actually. They taught "love, acceptance, and forgiveness," and really meant it. Remarkably, the church was experiencing record growth, unheard of community involvement, and real change in people's lives. It was amazing. We focused on Jesus -- who he was, what he did, and how we could be more like him. We read books like "Blue Like Jazz," "Love, Acceptance, and Forgiveness," and "How to be Religious Without Being a Christian." If you think you might agree with the OP, I'd read all three of those, seriously.

TheMentat · TheMentat's Garage

John Danforth was on the Daily Show a few days ago, discussing his new book... it deals with this topic. I can't seem to link to his entire interview but it is on the Comedy Central website...

MichiganMat · MichiganMat's Garage

You know, Im really interested in seeing this guys show. One of the real reasons I stopped going to church, my socializing backbone when I was in highschool, is because of the dogma and zealousy that I've experienced in so many churches and followers. Now that I've grown a little I see that I really need not only positive social interaction but also my spiritual side needs feeding. Luckily I've found a church that doesn't seek to motivate its members with shame and fear, tools that, while effective, only seem to ruin relationships, not improve them.

scottmandue · 12-14-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djmcmath
Hear, hear.

snip

I stumbled across a church a couple of years ago that was really fantastic, actually. They taught "love, acceptance, and forgiveness," and really meant it. Remarkably, the church was experiencing record growth, unheard of community involvement, and real change in people's lives. It was amazing. We focused on Jesus -- who he was, what he did, and how we could be more like him. We read books like "Blue Like Jazz," "Love, Acceptance, and Forgiveness," and "How to be Religious Without Being a Christian." If you think you might agree with the OP, I'd read all three of those, seriously.

You have me curious "How to be Religious Without Being a Christian."? Is that title supposed to be sarcastic? Such as the Christian writer that wrote "Never read a bible verse" meaning you shoud not take one sentance (verse) out of context and read at least the chapter it came from to understand its meaning.

I have been trying hard to be a Christian without being religious.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

http://www.shambhala.org

Secular. And you'll end up behaving more "Christian" than many that go to church...

scottmandue · 12-14-2006, 03:34 PM

Hey man... you oppressing me with you Buddhist evangelizing.

RPKESQ · 12-14-2006, 03:38 PM

We don't need religions, just live the "golden rule". All religions are judgemental, therefore they promote bigotry and hatred. And all religions should be banned from any say or role in government and politics.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Agreed. No religion has a monopoly on morality, much as they try to convince us they do.

FWIW I think Jesus was a man WAY ahead of his time and certainly one of the people in human history most worth listening to. There's a lot to be gained from his teachings. At the end of the day however, I feel he was just a man like you or I (perhaps with a few psychological problems) but with a great message and convinced he had to get it out there. The other stuff about divinity and heaven and hell and miracles and so-on, I have problems with, but if it makes the stories better, that's okay I guess - I guess one has to treat the Bible as fiction, not non-fiction, even though it's based largely on a lot of real people, situations, teachings, etc. There's probably quite a bit of made-up stuff in there too, but if it exists to make the core messages more understandable that's okay. Just too many people take it way too seriously.