USN conducting massive buildup off Iran

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
"We only take losses in Iraq because we stayed after the war".

Please explain that. Sounds like a form of "cut and run", not "finishing the job".

I was referring to the silly comparison between Iraq and Iran. We do not need to occupy/take over Iran to achieve the desired effect. All we need to do is to destroy their ability to produce nuclear weapons or project power against their neighbors. They are weak militarily and really would not have means to attack us...unless we occupied the country and were vulnerable to crude weapons.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Rearden
Another pacifist (appeaser) who believes in the goodness of the United Nations.

Then you've not seen my position on the UN. It's my position that the UN buildings should be flattened with a large wrecking ball, and the remains carted away to an undisclosed location, and then salt sewn on the land so that nothing will grow there for a long time.

Nevertheless, since the US Constitution specifys what the US government must do under the auspices of a treaty, and the UN Charter is a treaty to which the US government is a signatory, my position on the UN is irrelevant. If you don't know the Constitution, and very few of you neocon liberals do, then see the relevant article here. If you don't understand it, ask.

I spoke with two other naive unsophisticated people the other day about this stuff and they share your position, but they have the excuse of being my 9- and 12-year old nieces.

Well, it must be like the blind leading the blind then, because you appear to have no idea.

[snowman]

Originally posted by fastpat
We have no treaties of any kind with any nation that Iran has made "threatening ovatures" towards. No treaties, no legal method with which to justify and lawfully attack Iran.

....

So, Iran hasn’t threatened to wipe out Israel? That’s news.

[fintstone]

I would have to think that Iran has been just a wee bit threatening to have the following quotes from various articles about their recent statements.

"The president of Iran again lashed out at Israel on Friday and said it was “heading toward annihilation,” just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium for the first time."

“Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation,” [Iranian president Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad said at the opening of a conference in support of the Palestinians. “The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm.”

Ahmadinejad provoked a world outcry in October when he said Israel should be “wiped off the map.”

"On Tuesday, Ahmadinejad announced that Iran had successfully enriched uranium using a battery of 164 centrifuges, a significant step toward the large-scale production of enriched uranium required for either fueling nuclear reactors or making nuclear weapons."

[fintstone]

Looks to me like Iran is asking for it. We should oblige them. It seems that if they are working with those attacking our men and women in Iraq...that is an act of war.

Iranian Govt officials linked to terrorism in Iraq detained by US forces

[snowman]

Face it Pat, it was your type (Chamberlin) that caused WWII. If Germany had been properly confronted, the war might not have happened at all.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by snowman
So, Iran hasn’t threatened to wipe out Israel? That’s news.

The US government has no treaty with Israel.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by snowman
Face it Pat, it was your type (Chamberlin) that caused WWII. If Germany had been properly confronted, the war might not have happened at all.

Chamberlin didn't cause World War II, the european nations that stripped Germany of wealth and honor did that at the end of World War One. The reason the idiotic european government could do that was the infusion of fresh troops into the war in 1917, by president Woodrow "I kept America out of the war" Wilson.

World War Two was World War One, part two.

In those two wars so many people in western europe died that there has been a population shortage in those countries for 70 to 80 years, causing an inflow of muslims who have excess populations (relatively speaking) in their native countries.

Guys like you are working to have the same situation occur in America.

Guys like me intend to stop you.

[snowman]

Just remember the south already lost, and your chances of sucess are much less than the souths were.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by snowman
Just remember the south already lost, and your chances of sucess are much less than the souths were.

I know you won't get this, but I will let the US government ruin itself, which is well into doing.

The faster this occurs, the better and cheaper for all of us.

[Eric 951]

Originally posted by fastpat
[B
Guys like me intend to stop you. [/B]

"guys like you" did such a great job last time.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Eric 951
"guys like you" did such a great job last time.

There's an interesting article on bloodthirty neocons like you in the January 2007 edition of Chronicles Magazine, page 49, tltled "Lincoln, the Lieber Code, and Total War" by Joseph E. Fallon. Unfortunately, it's not on their web site, yet, if they post it as one of their viewable articles in a week or so, it may become viewable.

Significantly, here's a short excerpt.

"Lincoln's strategy was to defeat the Confederacy by targeting Southern civilians. One of his first acts of war was to order a blockade of Southern ports on April 19, 1861, to deny food and medicine, among other items, to civilians. Because such acts violated traditional U. S. military rules of conduct, Lincoln needed a new code to justify this behavior. So he commissioned Francis Leiber, a prominent Northern attorney and scholar, and a former advisor to Otto von Bismarck, to write it.

Lieber was the perfect choice. The Prussian immigrant was contemptuous of the Constitution. He dismissed the federal order it had established as a union of "confederacies of petty sovereigns" based on the "obsolete ideas" of Thomas Jefferson. He shared Lincoln's drive to centralize political power in the executive branch. Together, they alleged that, in wartime, implied powers in the Constitution grant the president authority to enact legislation as well as to interpret the Constitution -- to deny or suspend constitutional rights as the chief executive sees fit.

The new military code Lieber produced was entitles "Instructions for the Government of Armies of the Uniteds State in the Field." A cataloge of 157 rules, it was promulgated by Lincoln on April 24, 1863 as "General Orders No. 100." The code had two functions. First, it provided the needed "rules" to justify Lincoln's conduct of the war. Second, it further consolidated power in the office of the president by usurping key constitutional prerogative of Congress.

According to Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution, only Congress can "make laws for the Goernment and Regulation of land and naval Forces", and only Congress can "provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for government such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States." Lincoln had already usurped the powers to declare war and to suspend habeas corpus -- power also reserved to Congress."

Now, I know you'll not understand the above and its' relevance to Bush's activities, but not to worry, others will understand it quite well.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by Flatbutt1
[B]1 do we have definitive proof that they are working against us in Iraq?

Absolutely, yes.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by snowman
We cannot leave them alone for one big reason

THEY ARE PLANNING TO ATTACK US AND OUR ALLIES by their own words.

This is completely true. If the prez of Iran is to believed they WILL nuke Israel when they can. He has screamed it from the top of his lungs for anyone who is interested in listening to hear.

Obviously that cannot be allowed.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by fastpat
Chamberlin didn't cause World War II

"When confronted with a chioce France and Britain have chosen dishonor. They will now have war as well."
~Winston Churchill

[fastpat]

Originally posted by m21sniper
This is completely true. If the prez of Iran is to believed they WILL nuke Israel when they can. He has screamed it from the top of his lungs for anyone who is interested in listening to hear.

Obviously that cannot be allowed.

Let's see, Iran will attack Israel with a primitive nuclear device in 8 to 10 years, that's the Israel that has had nuclear weapons for over 20 years, has approximately 400 of them now, and delivery systems for them all, and will probably enhance it's capability for the next 8 to 10 years as well.

Do I really need to explain to you why Iran won't attack Israel within several human lifetimes, and probably not ever?

Further, We (meaning Americans) have absolutely no vested interest of any kind what occurs between Israel and Iran; and we (meaning the US government) don't have such an interest again largely because there is NO treaty obligation between the two governments.

There, I hope that helps you.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by m21sniper
"When confronted with a chioce France and Britain have chosen dishonor. They will now have war as well."
~Winston Churchill

Churchill was a fatass socialist blowhard, who'd say anything to beat down europe for Britain's benefit, an activity he'd been involved in for decades.

[john70t]

And of course, while the US selectivly bombs some palaces and airports from a parked carrier, Russia and China will stand aside and let their oil supply go up in smoke.

Oh, did someone mention China has the a huge standing army and bachlor demographic and is iching at invading a little island off it's coast? And is newly wealthy from US CEO's cutting out the middleman(American middle class) to fund their golden parachutes?

Did anyone wonder why that ex-KGB agent was killed with the trigger of Russian suitcase bombs.... of which so many are missing?

[Moneyguy1]

Iran may self destruct. Apparently, as hard as this is to conceive, their oil sales are going down worldwide. At the rate this is accelerating, some experts seem to think it will be "all over' by 2015. Wish I could get some verification on this....

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Iran may self destruct. Apparently, as hard as this is to conceive, their oil sales are going down worldwide. At the rate this is accelerating, some experts seem to think it will be "all over' by 2015. Wish I could get some verification on this....

If that's the case, then that's all the more reason to leave them alone. The US government prolonged the Soviet Union's demise by at least 20 years by activities that enabled the Soviet State to use fear to generate loyalty to a failing government and worse economy. In fact, it became so bad that it collapsed anyway even though the Reagan/Bush I team were trying to revive the Cold War as best they could.

Let it collapse on it's own, then those that want change will be able to make it happen without being tainted by US government money and influence.