People cause the problems, not untangible things...

You can have my apartment here.

Leaving in 18 hours and glad to be out of the sandbox!

JA

PS I do not know anything about the ME or Moslems. I would have to live in Chicago to be an expert on the subject.

"That is not what Muslims are taught".

Gee, ever read what they teach in Saudi Wahabi schools?

C_C; you ARE an apologist, defending the undefendable, resorting to name calling and making up "facts" as you go along. I attribute it to youth and inexperience.

Would you like a quote from Ahmed Sheikh, editor for Al Jazeera?

"It gnaws at people in the Middle East that such a small country as Israel, with only about 7 million inhabitants, can defeat the Arab nation with its 350 million. That hurts our collective ego. The Palestinian problem is in the genes of every Arab.The West's problem is they do not understand this". (interview with Swiss weekly Die Weltwoche).

As one writer has said: "The most underestimated emotion in Arab politics is humiliation. The Israeli-Arab conflict, for example, is not just about borders. Israel's mere existence is a daily humiliation to Muslims who can't understand how, if they have the superior religion, Israel can be so powerful." (Thomas L. Friedman)

Kamal Salabi, a Lebanese historian said: "Great powers should never get involved in the politics of small tribes".

It has also been said that in the ME tribal politics there is rarely a middle ground. When one side is weak, it will say "I am weak, how can I compromise?" If the they are strong they will say "I am strong. Why should I compromise?"

'In the Middle East, the extremists go all the way, and the moderates tend to just go away'.

Friedman makes another observation: "Our first priority is democracy, but the Arabs' first priority is "justice". The oft-warring tribes are all wounded souls, who really have been hurt by colonial powers, by Jewish settlements on Palestinian land, by Arab kings and dictators, and most of all, by each other in endless tribal wars".

Nah...I know nothing about politics or human nature.....

All the muslims in the world don't go to Wahhabist schools in Saudi to learn Islam. If they did, you'd have a point.

Please review the below again

Muslims the world over, yes.

No. That's like the David Koresh style of Islam. It's illogical, being offensive defies all that the Koran forbids (murder, rape, etc.), just like giving your prebuscent daughter to the "priest" defies the Christian written words.

And no, moneyguy, I am not an "apologist." If I were, I'd be defending the radicals, which I'm not. I'm defending the innocents.

ok, here's my take. I think one should judge someone by their actions, not their religion. Muslim extremism exists/flourishes in other countries because the actions are tolerated.

I find it disturbing that a congressman would make a sweeping statement soley based on the religion practiced by an individual rather than their character or actions. That is *not* what this country is based on.

Then again if you judged politicians by their moral character and their actions, most of them would be tossed...regardless of religion.

Amen.

Tolerated, or feared? I think it's probably both. Tolerated by some, feared by others.....I find it hard to believe all those people in those countries are sociopaths......and radical Islamic thinking is sociopathic thinking psychologically speaking.

I find it disturbing that a congressman would make a sweeping statement soley based on the religion practiced by an individual rather than their character or actions. That is *not* what this country is based on.

IMO he was talking about more then religion.

I think I read about the guy having drug charges and stealing a car or something like that.

I guess that makes him perfect for politics though.

Todd,

Agree for the most part but my heartburn is not with the terrorists, as almost everyone condems their actions, but with the rank and file of this dogcrap religion who stand there and do nothing all the while. If the rank and file would stand up and say " this is not correct, we will not support you, and will not fund nor hide you in the future" then the terrorists ranks would shrink as time went on.

Instead the rank and file does nothing, either agreeing with their stance or too afraid to say anything which is leading the terrorists to believe that they have support from the masses, and their ranks get larger and larger, day by day. The Imam's spew their hate and day by day the kids they teach learn nothing but "death to the infidel," no matter which country they live in.

Islam needs to clean up their act or the entire western world will end up eventually having a "cowboys versus the islams" war and the whole world will suffer, if it survives.

As George Carlin once said:

"There are no innocents. Your birth certificate is proof of guilt. Next case."

On a more serious note, guilt also belongs to those who stand on the sidelines and let the bad thigs happen. It is referred to as being an accessory to the fact.

As far as the number that attend Wahabi scools; my point is made. Those schools are tolerated, else they would no longer exist. And, the children have no choice. The same approach the Jesuits used to use: "Give us a child for the first six years and that child is ours for life."

How do you deprogram someone who has been indoctrinated since birth?

Yeah, that's the thing.

The jury is still out as to whether Islam really is "the religion of peace."

There was a program on last night (I think CNN), it showed what is being taught in government schools in places like Saudi Arabia and lots of other ME countries. Maybe not all muslims go to those schools or are indoctrinated that way. But there can be no doubt that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of youngsters are being brought up under Islam to be very, umm, unpeaceful towards non-Islams.

Is "muslim extremism" existing in other countries because it is "tolerated," or because it is being *actively promoted* by the Islamic controlled theocracy?

The program I saw had a woman Islamic scholar (she is also Islamic herself), they asked her what she felt the biggest threat to the US was? She said the US's political correctness. Enemies of the US take great advantage of it.

Anyways, I don't find what the congressman said to be "scary" at all. He has the same free speech rights as anyone else.

Agree or not I gotta say, a lot of good points have been brought up in this thread.

When tens and tens of thousands of Kwanzaa practitioners the world over start sawing the living heads off of Americans, blowing themselves up in malls and schoolbuses, planting hand grenades in malls on xmas eve, shooting women in the head in soccer stadiums for daring show their faces in public, and flying planes into skyscrapers, yep, i'll rue them too.

I'm real funny that way.

No one has said a word about banning Islam. Also, i would definitely debate you that 'the primary reason' the US was founded was freedom of religion.

Does the term "No taxation without representation" mean anything to you bro? ;)

Exactly!

So where does this Islamic politician stand? ...on the sidelines, perhaps?

Let's put all this bickering aside and concentrate on all the good things that the Muslems have done for mankind. I'll start the list: 1.:confused:

Interestingly enough, Jesus was not a pedophile...

Sure, to anyone who has never read a history book.

Miss, have you ever heard of the battle of Tours? Charles Martel? Ever wondered why Sicilians have dark skin?
Ever wonder why the Pope suffered the reign of Vlad the Impaler(the real dracula)? Does the term "Buffer state" mean anything to you? Sigh...

Yes, Madrassas are well known for their world class curriculum's. In these 'schools' Jews are absolutely demonized, and extremely orthodox versions of Islam are taught to students from the time they can speak. That's what all the documentaries i've seen say.

<sarcasm>Unless that right wing mouthpiece CNN is spreading more neo-con lies to make Islam look bad.</sarcasm>

Has there ever been a jewish pol who's insisted on swearing in on a Torah?

I've known Keith (the congressman-elect in question who was the subject of this thread when it started) for almost 15 years. He was a young criminal defense attorney when I was a young prosecutor. We butted heads more than once. As a matter of fact, I understand that I prosecuted his first criminal jury trial. (She was convicted on one count, the jury hung on the other. He did a nice job.)

I don't know whether to defend him from some of the more insane things said here or explain to you why he really is a poor choice for Congress. Suffice it to say that most of you have completely missed the point. If you want to know real and legitimate reasons to object to Keith, do a quick Google search on him and look at who he's represented over the years and see some of the quotes he's said.

On the up side, he is mostly harmless. He will revel in the attention the race and religion baiters give him, and enjoy the prestige and status it gives him. He will rack up a voting record that would have made Paul Wellstone proud and he will likely not accomplish much in the way of legislation. It embarasses me when members of my party insist on acting like complete asses when they could level constructive and devestating criticism of people like Keith.

What comment is it exactly that has a weed up your ass MRM. I havn't seen anyone really lay into the congresscritter himself, it's mainly been a debate about the future course of Islam, and whether or not it is a 'gathering storm' if you will.

Personally, i see nothing wrong with contemplating long term issues, but if you feel we deserve derision for it, ummm, OK?

Mostly yours, Snipe. Good night.

Considering the Koran has been read in the whitehouse for more than one term - this doesn't surprise me. (And I realy realy wonder when Bush says "god bless" - Who?)

Are you as generous in your assesment of the Church of the American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? You judge only the actions of individual members and not the philosophy of the group they represent?

You may be mostly harmless but I find your comments extremely disturbing. We are to assume that you are still in the legal community and have known this individual for some time? Now you are saying that "he is harmless" yet seem to have no problem in allowing him to attempt to change the way things have been done in this country for over 200 years as a publicity stunt?

As M21 said before, we have many Jewish politicians who have been elected and none of them want to use a Jewish instrument in their election, yet now our latest Muslim grandstander wants to use the Koran and all you can say is that he is a "poor choice for Congress?"

Its 'harmless stunts" like this that have been adopted in this damm politically correct country as of late that may very well be our downfall. They are far from harmless IMHO and I am by far not alone. Suggest at some point you sit back and think about it and hopefully after some reflection you might find that stunts like this need to be stopped immediately.

Know who else would've been highly offended by my comments?

Nick Berg.

+1,000

FWIW I'll vote for my congressperson, mayor, governor, president, dog catcher, judge and whomever else based on their qualifications for the job - not on their religious beliefs.

The only exception to that might be that I might NOT vote for someone if I think their religious beliefs are going to factor into or influence their political decision-making unduly (such as might be the case with a RADICAL muslim, a RADICAL christian, a RADICAL jew or a rabid atheist).

People should be able to more-or-less keep their religious beliefs to themselves and allow whatever they believe in to quietly direct their lives and guide their actions. The ones that feel the need to constantly yap about it and how "God speaks to me" or whatever have no business in leadership positions - in fact they probably belong in mental institutions more often than not. If they want to let their spirituality help guide their decisions, fine. If they want to constantly default to the "guidance" of one particular radical element and try to impose it on the rest of us as law, hit the road, Jack.

The biggest enemy to our type of government is those who would seek to radicalize our government or make it more theocratic. Spirituality and the peace it can give one is a wonderful thing - institutionalized religion is generally a bad thing. When institutionalized religious beliefs are mixed with government, the results are ALWAYS bad - history supports this without any doubt. Fortunately our founding fathers saw this potential problem and built in checks against that into our governement (insert discussion about the Doctrine of Separation of Church and State or elected representation here). Usually here in the USA it's the radical xian whack-jobs that are the enemy, but I don't care if it's a radical xian, muslim, jew or whatever - it's got no business in politics which is supposed to be about PUBLIC service, not service to whatever dogma you happen to embrace. Being part of a particular faith is fine, being RADICAL to the point where you allow it to supercede your judgement and the basic premise of the job you're selected to do (public service, listening to your constituency) is not.

While most muslims probably abhor violence, I still think the notion of calling Islam the "religion of peace" is a crock of schit. Same for Christianity. Same for Judeasm. They all have radical nut jobs that pervert the central message and they all have skeletons in their closet. But to simply think that saying "that's not us" is good enough is a joke. Start cracking down on these militants openly. Have the mullahs take a UNITED stance against this kind of crap. Have their peers start standing up against these assclowns instead of passively sitting by, letting themselves be intimidated. Then maybe we'll start believing in your "religion of peace" schit.

Jesus didn't hook up with anyone. Apparently he was asexual or something...

In some areas, yes. Did your documentary say that's the case with all schools, or even most schooles, the case of 1.3 billion muslims, where 80% are not arab? (Answer.,...NO. You're cherry-picking. You have absolutely no concept of perspective but that would defy your your Chicken Little drama act)

Good point, or maybe an atheist politician should use Darwin's "origin of species".

:D

And here you have it ladies and gentlemen...the world famous CC debating tactic known as the "I know you are, but what am I?" attack. :rolleyes:

oh.....almost forgot...LOL! :D

Randy

WTF are you talking about? He was saying I was thinking something I wasn't thinking, hence my comment about his reading comprehension.

Try to keep up, ok?

LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL

Light years ahead of you. But you couldn't begin to comprehend.

Randy

I think all this is beyond reasonable thought. Don't you think?

Why even I don't know what I am thinking... I keep myself in a constant state of befuddlement to keep the aliens from reading my brianwaves.

dd, I think reasonable thought was abandoned several paged ago.

"I came here for an argument"
"No you didn't"

I thought so. But then I realized it was just brain gas.

Scottmandue, kiss my ass.

You're better than them....WTF are you doing?

I find it scary that others (libs) find it scary. Denial.

Dammit CC if I don't know what I am thinking how am I supposed to know what I am doing I would therefor have to think about what I was doing and I have predisposed myself to not thinking... I think.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1166916652.jpg

how about if we start persecuting Christians? You know those LDS are dangerous...

I still maintain that this country is founded on judging people on their actions, not their beliefs (or is supposed to be). If someone wants to be in the Church of Satanic Porn Monkeys, that is fine as long as their actions are legal under our statutes.

mmm, satanic porn monkeys...

Denial is found in those that don't see the erosion of personal freedoms in this country, and a reactionary swing towards a Christiano-fascist state.

ymmv and probably does...

Sounds like a personal problem to me, Scott. Can't help you there....

LOL

Sidenote, that is one very cute bunny ya got there....