Possible to unit Darwin and Christ ?

[trekkor]

No hand waves?....Blast!!


KT

[kang]

Originally posted by trekkor
Your comments are simple disagreements.

"Providing proof, need you will"- Yoda

KT

Say what? I don’t understand.

I provided some evidence that the whole ark story has been disproven, and you call them disagreements? What a way to dodge the issue!

How in your mind do you think the whole ark story actually happened? Can you tell me how they possibly got two of every animal, plus food and water, on that ship? Can you tell me how that wooden ark didn’t fall apart under its own weight?

[livi]

I think we are closing in on a Nobel Prize here.

On a side note: If God is everywhere - I wonder how he finds the new 997 Turbo.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by kang
The whole Noah’s ark story has been entirely discredited. There is no evidence of the flood and the ark has never been found. It is ridiculous to think that you could possibly get two of every animal, plus enough food and water for them, on a ship. If the ark were built of wood according to the dimensions given in the bible, it would fall apart under it’s own weight. I could go on and on.

Perhaps the ark story is a metaphor for something else, but as it stands literally, it has been proven false.

There is no evidence of a flood?

Bro, entire continents were at one time underwater. What's more, most civilizatins speak to a flood of Noah proportions in their past. Coincidence? Maybe....

There is a massive biblical flood everytime there's a thaw from an ice-age, but i bet you knew that.

And one can hardly be surprised that one has not found a wooden ship thousands and thousands of years old anywhere on this earth since we dont really know specifically where to look for it. We DO find new shipwrecks everyday though. Maybe tommorow we'll find your ark....if it exists.

[trekkor]

Originally posted by kang
Say what? I don’t understand.

I provided some evidence that the whole ark story has been disproven, and you call them disagreements? What a way to dodge the issue!

How in your mind do you think the whole ark story actually happened? Can you tell me how they possibly got two of every animal, plus food and water, on that ship? Can you tell me how that wooden ark didn’t fall apart under its own weight?

I wasn't there.

But, I will tell you this:

1) They spent 40 years on the project.

2) the modern, large ocean going ships use a width to length ratio similar to that of the ark. I wonder how they knew that would be the best?



KT

[trekkor]

I don't know that there is much left of any wood that is pushing 6,000 years old...Ark or otherwise.


KT

[skipdup]

I wonder how many ships, lost within the past 100 years, which have not been found.

[nota]

Originally posted by m21sniper
There is no evidence of a flood?

Bro, entire continents were at one time underwater. What's more, most civilizatins speak to a flood of Noah proportions in their past. Coincidence? Maybe....

There is a massive biblical flood everytime there's a thaw from an ice-age, but i bet you knew that.

And one can hardly be surprised that one has not found a wooden ship thousands and thousands of years old anywhere on this earth since we dont really know specifically where to look for it. We DO find new shipwrecks everyday though. Maybe tommorow we'll find your ark....if it exists.

local floods sure
black sea flood yes
stories of flood sure

post iceage changes in sea level sure
land areas sinking and rasing check

BUT NO WORLD WIDE FLOOD ever at any date
let alone the bible noah flood date
[he Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC +/- 11 years.]
but no flood layer at that or and other dates for a world wide mountian topping flood
no mountian topping flood ever
in fact where could that much water come from and go to after the fact?

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by nota
local floods sure
black sea flood yes
stories of flood sure

post iceage changes in sea level sure
land areas sinking and rasing check

BUT NO WORLD WIDE FLOOD ever at any date
let alone the bible noah flood date

Didn't we all used to think the world was flat

[kang]

Originally posted by trekkor
I wasn't there.

But, I will tell you this:

1) They spent 40 years on the project.

2) the modern, large ocean going ships use a width to length ratio similar to that of the ark. I wonder how they knew that would be the best?

KT

Because they spent 40 years on it, and the width to length ratio is “similar” to large ocean going ships, the story is true? That’s pretty weak, dude.

On what large ocean going ship can they put two of every animal?

How could they possibly wander the globe and get two of every animal? They went to Antarctica and got two penguins and they went the arctic and got two polar bears and they went to Africa and got two hippos, etc, etc?

And it is still true that if the arc were built to those specs, out of wood, it would fall apart under its own weight. You have yet to address this fact.

Read this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark

Here’s a quote:

By the beginning of the 18th century, the growth of geology and biogeography as sciences meant that few natural historians felt able to justify a literal interpretation of the Ark story. Nevertheless, Biblical literalists continue to explore the region of the mountains of Ararat, in north-eastern Turkey where the Bible says Noah's Ark came to rest.

The ark story has been discreditied since “the beginning of the 18th century,” but just like evolution, the only people that believe the Ark story to be real are “biblical literalists.”

[kang]

Originally posted by trekkor
I don't know that there is much left of any wood that is pushing 6,000 years old...Ark or otherwise.

KT

There is plenty of petrified wook much older than 6,000 years.

Why is it OK that the ark is missing, but it is not OK that a small number of species on the evolutionary tree are missing?

[jluetjen]

Originally posted by kang

However, there are those who insist on taking every word in the bible literally. They will forever believe that god created the universe in six 24 hour days.

A brief tangent...

There are many different flavors of Christianity, a spectrum really. Some chose to emphesize one thing (Baptists the Spirit, Methodists -- Good Works, Catholics the Body and Blood, and so on) over another.

Some people believe that the "Day" described in Genesis is strictly a modern day of 24 hours. I've mentioned this elsewhere on this BBS, but the Hebrew word for "day" used in Genesis does map very well onto the English word "day", and was generally used in the same way, such as...

It took me a DAY to do that... (24 hours or alternatively a workday)
What DAY is it? (Friday)
At the end of the DAY... (sunset, or the end of daylight or a workday)
Back in my DAY... (an indetermined period of time)

As far as interpretting the Bible, there are also those (The Amish, Menninites, etc) who believe that God wants us to live in a simple, "old fashioned" way, which to them seems to arbitrarily mean in the style of a 19th Century agrarian society, as opposed to say...
- A simple Roman style society such as when Jesus lived
- A simple Bronze aged society such as during the time of Jewish Kingdom

Does this mean that they are going to rot in hell? I don't know. But if Christians practice their particular faith sincerly, I'm pretty sure that God will give them credit for it. Jesus even taught that it was the good Sameritan (a Judaic offshoot, considered by many Jews to be heritical) who was doing God's work when he helped the traveller who had been mugged. He also made the clear point that God's will was not done by the "holy" Levite or the High Priest who were both too occupied with themselves and their perceived position as inate "friends of God" to help the person in need.

So I guess the application of this famous parable is that none of us is going to be doing God's will and get to heaven just by being a member of the Hebrew/Catholic/Baptist/Methodist/Mennonite/Lutheran/etc. group, but rather by what we do and how we act to others, especially those in need.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by nota
local floods sure
black sea flood yes
stories of flood sure

post iceage changes in sea level sure
land areas sinking and rasing check

BUT NO WORLD WIDE FLOOD ever at any date
let alone the bible noah flood date
[he Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC +/- 11 years.]
but no flood layer at that or and other dates for a world wide mountian topping flood
no mountian topping flood ever
in fact where could that much water come from and go to after the fact?

The only thing we know is that at one point or another virtually every single square inch of the world was under water. Whether it was ever all under water at once or not, i have no idea. But then, to a guy building an Ark in turkey(or where-ever else), a "local" flood that wiped out "only" his continent would seem very world wide indeed.

You're probably right, there was probably no ark, but in my opinion there is no definitive evidence it didn't happen either.

Were i a myth-buster, i'd call this story "plausible, but entirely unproven."

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by kang
There is plenty of petrified wook much older than 6,000 years.

Why is it OK that the ark is missing, but it is not OK that a small number of species on the evolutionary tree are missing?

Because there are tens of thousands(well, at least many thousands) of sunken ships in recorded times that are still missing, even though we know approxomately where they were lost from ancient records.

As far as the evolutionary tree, if said tree leads back to abiogenesis, IMO, the entire tree is a fraud.

[skipdup]

Originally posted by m21sniper
The only thing we know is that at one point or another virtually every single square inch of the world was under water. Whether it was ever all under water at once or not, i have no idea. But then, to a guy building an Ark in turkey(or where-ever else), a "local" flood that wiped out "only" his continent would seem very world wide indeed.

Good point.

Maybe the flood wiped out the entire "inhabited by man" world. Or, known world.

Regardless, my faith does not rest on one piece of information... like what rabbits eat or an un-found biodegradable ship.

I don't blame people for being skeptical. I used to think/question many of the same things as some on this thread/board. Heck, I also used to think people like me were a little wacky.

- Skip

[Nathans_Dad]

Flood stories populate many religions and ancient societies. I believe that they did find evidence of a large flood in Mesopotamia sometime around 2000 BC. I would doubt that there was a world wide flood, however at the time the known world was pretty small. Therefore a flood that involved much of the middle east would certainly kill thousands if not millions and would put much of the wildlife in the area in jeopardy.

I think the problem you guys are having is you are trying to argue literal Bible references with people who are non-literalists. Barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.

[IROC]

Originally posted by skipdup
Regardless, my faith does not rest on one piece of information... like what rabbits eat or an un-found biodegradable ship.

Agreed. Arguing minor points of biblical errancy is a waste of time. It is the "big picture" story of Christianity itself that ruined my "faith"...

Mike

[m21sniper]

Im not a xtian either, or even religious. I believe in a god, but am smart enough to know that im not smart enough to know his purpose, intent, or nature.

So i leave it at that.

[Nathans_Dad]

Christians don't think they know God's purpose either...

Man, who have you guys been hanging out with?

[nota]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Flood stories populate many religions and ancient societies. I believe that they did find evidence of a large flood in Mesopotamia sometime around 2000 BC. I would doubt that there was a world wide flood, however at the time the known world was pretty small. Therefore a flood that involved much of the middle east would certainly kill thousands if not millions and would put much of the wildlife in the area in jeopardy.

I think the problem you guys are having is you are trying to argue literal Bible references with people who are non-literalists. Barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.

any flood in Mesopotamia would be imposable to result in putting a ark on top of mt ararat or any other mountian

now for a major local flood the black sea flood is closer but that never got near to the base of mt ararat let alone the top and was 8000 years before the bible date