The cost of Vista

[id10t]

So... for those of you who like Microsoft products, check this out:

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

[Joeaksa]

Vista?? Hell, I am still using W2000 with no plans on moving up just yet.

The horror stories about what is needed to work with Vista are really popping up lately. Will really sell a lot of new motherboards and video cards!

[widebody911]

I'm about 1/2-way through the article. No wonder Vista has been delayed so long - they've put more effort into the DRM/content-protection bits than the actual OS!

[masraum]

My XP works great, much better than anything I've had before. It's actually the first MS anything that I've ever paid for, and I wouldn't have paid except that I got a great deal. Very, very few problems. I don't see upgrading any time soon.

[legion]

Best quote:

Note D: In order for content to be displayed to users, it has to be copied
numerous times. For example if you're reading this document on the web then
it's been copied from the web server's disk drive to server memory, copied to
the server's network buffers, copied across the Internet, copied to your PC's
network buffers, copied into main memory, copied to your browser's disk cache,
copied to the browser's rendering engine, copied to the render/screen cache,
and finally copied to your screen. If you've printed it out to read, several
further rounds of copying have occurred. Windows Vista's content protection
(and DRM in general) assume that all of this copying can occur without any
copying actually occurring, since the whole intent of DRM is to prevent
copying. If you're not versed in DRM doublethink this concept gets quite
tricky to explain, but in terms of quantum mechanics the content enters a
superposition of simultaneously copied and uncopied states until a user
collapses its wave function by observing the content (in physics this is
called quantum indeterminacy or the observer's paradox). Depending on whether
you follow the Copenhagen or many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics,
things then either get weird or very weird. So in order for Windows Vista's
content protection to work, it has to be able to violate the laws of physics
and create numerous copies that are simultaneously not copies.

[stomachmonkey]

Read a part of it. Hate to say it because I love to hate MSFT but it's more the fault of the entertainment industry imposing restrictions and standards that are difficult to implement without hurting the consumer.

Go look up Sony's root kit issue from last year and read the usage rights policy. Example from it, if you bought an audio CD in the US you could not legally take the content outside the US. So if you wanted to take it on vacation in say Greece, legally you were in violation of your "license".

But how would they know? Well if you put it into a computer that had internet access the root kit had the ability to report your location.

And people ding Apple for their DRM on iTunes? Blaming the wrong people.

[legion]

This is a massive disaster just waiting to happen.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by stomachmonkey
Read a part of it. Hate to say it because I love to hate MSFT but it's more the fault of the entertainment industry imposing restrictions and standards that are difficult to implement without hurting the consumer.

Actually, if you read further, the author fries this red herring. He postulates that Microsoft is using this to control the content delivery market.

[legion]

Is it just me, or can everyone just choose to sit on XP indefinitely if Vista is such a disaster?

There is a precedent. Microsoft did have to extend support of VB6 because a huge user base decided not to go to Dot Net.

Of course, Microsoft could choose to sneak an update into XP, but then everyone's hardware would quit working.

---

If I understand this correctly, every device that touches "premium content" is required to decrypt the content, do its function, then re-encrypt the content before passing it on?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally posted by widebody911
Actually, if you read further, the author fries this red herring. He postulates that Microsoft is using this to control the content delivery market.

Thanks, I will read it in it's entirety. I buy that argument. It fits MSFT's business practices to date.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

http://www.redhat.com

One of the best moves I ever made.

[many944s]

^ +1

[HardDrive]

As stated above, it is astounding that people would blame Microsoft for all of the content restriction. Neither MS or Apple are to blame for their DRM schemes. If people want to be pissed at someone, might I suggest they target the RIAA and the MPAA. Its those bastards, hand in hand with congress that are pushing all of this.

Attacking MS is just pathetic.

[id10t]

HardDrive - not attacking MS - heck, I don't even use their stuff (Ubuntu linux for me!). However, with it about to come out, I figured it would get some brain cells going...

[cstreit]

Yeah, the big question is, how long before they sunset Win2003 and XP?

When they do? It's Linux for moi, I don't care who's fault it is...

[Neilk]

Originally posted by HardDrive
As stated above, it is astounding that people would blame Microsoft for all of the content restriction. Neither MS or Apple are to blame for their DRM schemes. If people want to be pissed at someone, might I suggest they target the RIAA and the MPAA. Its those bastards, hand in hand with congress that are pushing all of this.

Attacking MS is just pathetic.

Check out this NYTimes article on Apple's DRM. It's quite interesting that Apple adds DRM to songs that are sold by some record companies without any copy protection. It's about controlling content.

[Chuck Moreland]

Interesting. Is it possible Vista won't take?

Is Microsoft strong enough to make it stick? IBM once held that position, or so it seemed.

Who remembers OS2? and micro channel?

[SlowToady]

Originally posted by cstreit
Yeah, the big question is, how long before they sunset Win2003 and XP?

When they do? It's Linux for moi, I don't care who's fault it is...

With regards to 2003, I don't think it is going to EOL anytime soon. Windows 2000, which was a workstation AND server OS, had mainstream support until June 2005, and will retain extended support until July 2010. I'll go ahead and guess about 10-12 years until 2003 is totally EOLed.

So, I'm going to guess 5 years of mainstream support for XP.

I think Vista is going to get adopted fairly well, perhaps not by large institutions, but by end users and system builders.

Seriously, MSFT should get kick backs from 3d graphics companies and motherboard companies.

[legion]

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland
Interesting. Is it possible Vista won't take?

That's what I was getting at. The market (businesses and individuals) won't buy an operating system that requires vastly faster (and more expensive) hardware to maintain performance while at the same time obsoleting nearly all of the hardware one owns. (I still use a SCSI Zip drive, for example.) Not to mention that the OS will be much vulnerable to quirky hardware glitches and crashes, by design.

I was just thinking that in college, I downloaded a Monty Python sound scheme for Doom. It was pretty funny when the demons said "message for you sir" just before collapsing into a bloody heap. This is the kind of thing the DRM will stiffle. The hardcore pirates will always find a way.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
http://www.redhat.com

One of the best moves I ever made.

Can you install it for me at work, hook it up to my server, personal printer and DSL line. Then at home, install it on my home machine, hook it up to my wireless and printer? Oh, and I don't want to lose any of my files.

I just can't seem to do it, and have pretty much given up.

As to Vista - I don't feel like updating my machinery to run Vista - so it won't be happening for me unless I get a new machine.