Carpenters...pricing help please

[Flatbutt1]

I'm doing a little renovating. I have a room that I'm converting to a study/ guest room. I'd like to make the short wall a full bookcase. Approx 8'x11. You know, floor to ceiling kinda thing. I am of course ready to pay a craftsman's wage but have no idea what to expect.

Any ideas?

TIA

[ginot912]

$35 up to $50+ /hr
the trick is to find someone with some good references.

Gino

[Superman]

The wage for a union Carpenter in Seattle is in the $30 per hour neighborhood. Benefits are in addition, and they are valued at roughly $10 per hour. That's in Seattle. Somewhat less in other areas of the state.

Of course, if you use a contractor, the contractor pays these wages and you get to pay closer to $100 per hour. Capitalism, you know. It's a wonderful system.

Don't hesitate. Right now, there are carpenters watching TV at home but soon the construction industry will be in swing again and then you'll have to stand in line behind everyone else to get decent talent.

[URY914]

They will probably price it on a per day basis and it will get rounded up to the nearest day. A day and 1/2 job will be a two day job. They won't be going to another job for 1/2 a day. Plus material and level of detail of course.

Now that being said they will charge you as much as they think you will be willing to pay. They will throw out a number to see if you will except it.

Before you talk to them have a detailed drawing or a picture of what you want. The more detail the better and the price will be a firm price. If you don't know what you want how are they to put a price on it? You have to know what you want. Don't just walk over to the wall and wave your arms and say build me.....$$$$$. You need to know what your buying.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Superman
The wage for a union Carpenter in Seattle is in the $30 per hour neighborhood. Benefits are in addition, and they are valued at roughly $10 per hour. That's in Seattle. Somewhat less in other areas of the state.

Of course, if you use a contractor, the contractor pays these wages and you get to pay closer to $100 per hour. Capitalism, you know. It's a wonderful system.

Don't hesitate. Right now, there are carpenters watching TV at home but soon the construction industry will be in swing again and then you'll have to stand in line behind everyone else to get decent talent.

I have to break my silence on that one. You obviously don't have a clue as to what it takes to break even, much less make a profit. And I'm not going to labor over helping you understand. It's people like you that make the economy what it is. Cheap bastards.

That having been said, flatbutt, go buy a modular system made in Mexico. There's no work for a decent carpenter these days (I'm a master carpenter) and there are damn few left.

[competentone]

Originally posted by Flatbutt1
I'd like to make the short wall a full bookcase. Approx 8'x11. You know, floor to ceiling kinda thing. I am of course ready to pay a craftsman's wage but have no idea what to expect.

Unless you find someone with excellent references, you'd probably do better to check with your local cabinet shops (or even your local Home Depot or Lowes kitchen cabinet section if you don't want anything too custom) and see what they can do for you.

It can be cheaper, give you better construction quality and better finish -- and be a lot less headache for you -- to have a bookcase "unit" built to fit your wall.

The less time you have people working in your house, the better.

Having someone there for a couple of days doing the work, dealing with dust, noise and smells, is likely to be a lot worse then just dealing with the delivery and installation of a unit built in someone's shop or factory.

[boboli]

I would expect to pay $2000 to $3000 depending on the type of wood you want. Of course it will also depend on the type of finish you plan to put on it aswell... paint/stain

[URY914]

Just get some concrete blocks and some 1" x 12". You know like your dorm room. $20.00 at HD.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by URY914
Just get some concrete blocks and some 1" x 12". You know like your dorm room. $20.00 at HD.

You wasted 'beer money' on that high class crap.... milk crates

[Steve Carlton]

Have one of those secret doors put in that swing open when you pull back on a certain book.

[motion]

Originally posted by milt
That having been said, flatbutt, go buy a modular system made in Mexico. There's no work for a decent carpenter these days (I'm a master carpenter) and there are damn few left.

I was at a buddy's home construction site the other day when his ginormous front door with sidelights arrived in a truck from Mexico. This door is beautiful. And gigantic. It took 6 of us to carry the frame with sidelights to the front of the house. He paid $4500 to have it custom made in Mexico and delivered to his site. Cheapest bid from a U.S. door maker was $22,000.

Milt, I don't know how you guys are going to deal with the market pressure from Mexico. Only thing I can think of is to specialize in ultra-high custom residential where price is not as much of an issue... and be hooked up with generals and architects who will spec your services.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by motion
I was at a buddy's home construction site the other day Milt, I don't know how you guys are going to deal with the market pressure from Mexico. Only thing I can think of is to specialize in ultra-high custom residential where price is not as much of an issue... and be hooked up with generals and architects who will spec your services.

Funny thing about that is at least 2 high end door companies are located in San Diego. Where do you think the shops are?

As far as competing, I have no intension. If people want me to work for them at this point, they better not ask right off the bat, " how much?" Over the years, I've had many people say things like how much if we substitute (pine for oak) when the labor is 3/4ths the bid. I simply don't return that phone call. Those types don't deserve what a true journeyman can do and yet they pick, pick, pick at the work with no background as to what to look for.

One old timer told me many years ago that education of the customer was very important. My dad told me that "you can't learn anything with your mouth open," which most potential customer's usually is. Of course, the well initiated know the ropes and get things done well for a reasonable price, knowing who and what to look for. I don't have the time nor inclination to teach.

Note: These days, high grade pine probably costs more than oak, but it was just an example of the mentality.

[Superman]

Originally posted by milt
I have to break my silence on that one. You obviously don't have a clue as to what it takes to break even, much less make a profit. And I'm not going to labor over helping you understand. It's people like you that make the economy what it is. Cheap bastards.

That having been said, flatbutt, go buy a modular system made in Mexico. There's no work for a decent carpenter these days (I'm a master carpenter) and there are damn few left.

Back off, Milt. I usually jump on chances to poke fun at capitalism and while that may give you an excuse to criticize my level of understanding, it falls WAY short of an actual reason. This is my business, Milt. If you wanna have a battle of information, just make sure your helmet is strapped on tight. Right now I'm helping to administer several dozen large construction projects that range from hundreds of millions of dollars.....to hundred-dollar fixes of sticking doors. Labor costs on major construction projects almost never exceeds 30% of the cost of the project. That's a brute fact.

Your ball, Milt.

[john70t]

Although I have a great deal of respect for skilled trades, I'll have to disagree with you there Milt. Personal customer service is the one thing ignored for too long in this country.

A great part of the American consumer mentality in those with excess capitol(i.e.:who buy high-end customizations) is that it has to be easy to purchase first, and forget about the money, which will be returned to them later in resale etc.

The customer see's the targeted advertising, the smiling counter person, and the financing representative, and then they go home with a shiny new overpriced product not even thinking about those bills.
Each of these customer-processing steps has a different function (the ad's to intrigue, the salesperson to convince that the product will make him a better/more important person, and the financing to overcome buyers resistance and close the sales obligation.
The customer never see's the managment, the shipping, and the support staff working behind the scenes who really make the company function, and they don't care.

Where are the complementary shoeshiners, the elevator attendants, and the doormen these days (I'm not refering to arguments on wages, ceo parachutes, health care,etc..)? They've been replaced by automated processes like automatic doors, self-check outs, and by customer profiling/tracking/stalking.
I'm sure many people really do not like the herding mentality these days, and would gladly choose an alternative if it was available.

As an independant business, if you give too much customer attention they may think you're making up for shortcomings or "strange", too little and they won't want to deal with you, but a quick and patient calculation or generalized estimate leaves a good impression.
Don't make friends with customers and don't make enemies-they are there to pay your expenses. And never demean the woman of the house, the one with a rolodex of contacts..

There's a small 3 man repair shop around the corner that's consistently booked months in advance- not because of their price, but simply because the owner of the shop takes two minutes and walks the customer through what he thinks needs fixing and why. All reference.

[LeeH]

We paid $3000 to have these built. This guy does nice work:
http://larsoncustombuilt.com/

[Superman]

I'm calmer now. Milt, I think I recall that perhaps you are a Carpenter. At any rate, I've got a lot of respect for the folks in the trades. They earn every penny. But again, somewhere between 20% and 30% of construction costs go to the folks who actually do the work. And....I see superintendents and general foremen driving some really nice trucks and staying in some really nice hotels and eating at some really nice restaurants. And......then there are the folks who think private businesses are efficient and public money is irresponsibly spent. Sheesh!

[gr8fl4porsche]

I would get quotes from cabinet shops. I just had 2 small built-ins made for me with a few shelves and doors. Ran about $400 unfinished and uninstalled. Each was 20" wide about 8 ft tall.

[Superman]

Originally posted by milt
the labor is 3/4ths the bid.

Here is the crux. I most certainly agree with you about peoples' lack of understanding and resulting disrespect for craft labor. But here you mention labor being 3/4 of the bid. I would FAINT if I ever saw a bid anywhere near this ratio. It does not happen. In my world, you can take the expected labor cost, multiply that by FIVE and you'll be very close to the Engineers' Estimate and the low bid. The only way you will get the kind of efficiency you mentioned is to hire the craftsman directly.

[gr8fl4porsche]

I believe Milt is saying that in the finish carpentry field, labor can be about 75% of the bid. A custom $1000 project may have about $250 in material.

In my field, commercial coatings applications, some projects may involve only about 15% material cost. Other projects involving high performance coatings can go as much as 50% material. For specialty faux finishing work, labor costs can be up in the 90 percentile.

[chapo]

I like the response about the cost of doors from Mexico. I am sure they are great looking and well crafted. We pass laws in this country to protect workers, consumers, the enviroment, etc. Then whine about how much stuff costs and go to a country( Mexico, China) where there are few, if any protections. I am not even talking about unions. As a Ca contractor myself, I billed out my employees for more than myself due to workers comp. ( 40-55%) of payroll for a carpenter,as high or higher as a roofer. After installing a number of Home Depot or Lowes type kitchens and baths, its amazing how many errors there are in this sytem.. Wrong color shipped, wrong sizes, damaged, or blatant errors or even (fudges) on the layouts. Their response, so what two to three weeks we will get you another one. There is something to be said about an independent outfit. Just my .02, not intended to offend anyone.