They have NO idea of what they are messing with

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Lothar
They would take the money and still attack us, given the opportunity.

There is no way to undo the past. The British, French, Dutch and former Soviets, to name just a few, have done their share of meddling as well.

Yet, except for the British hoping to snatch crumbs, the others appear to have made a peace, and have mostly withdrawn.

So even if the US were to clean up it's international act to suit them, we will still be left with a fight.

Since America wasn't under attack, or even consideration for an attack, until well after World War Two, your comment is ahistorical.

Further, that's a risk that must be taken. We must adopt George Washington's recommendation of long ago because we don't have the moral authority to do otherwise.

[snowman]

Originally posted by stuartj
...
..... The US lead COTW invaded Iraq, using a series of bogus justifications before settling "regime change". ....
.....

The THIRD investigation of our intelligence has just concluded the same thing as the first two. NO the intelligence was not tampered with, the analysts were not pressured, Bush did not phony up anything. It was our best intelligence and the rest of the worlds that Sadam had WMDs. The intelligence turned out to be flat out wrong. Bushes main mistake was not firing the entire lot, on the spot. His second mistake was to try to modify the mission to fit the new circumstances. Yet his course of action should not have been modified. The liberal, hate Bush crowd has offered so much hope and support to our enemy’s that they are still hanging on. They should all be hanged for treason.

Then there’s Pat. The stars and bars crowd will not have him, so where can he go? His support of our enemy is as bad or worse than the liberals. So I say hang him for treason as well.

[speeder]

Actually, another damning study was just released that shows that the Pentagon bullied the intel community into revising their analysis of SH as a threat.

Not sure where you get your news, but it sure isn't from any legitimate source.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by snowman
The THIRD investigation of our intelligence has just concluded the same thing as the first two. NO the intelligence was not tampered with, the analysts were not pressured, Bush did not phony up anything.

In fact the Department of Defense Inpector General has released a report that says the intelligence was tampered with and phonied up by Bush II appointee's, placed in office for just that purpose. See: http://www.dodig.mil/IGInformation/archives/Unclass%20%20Executive%20Summary.pdf

It was our best intelligence and the rest of the worlds that Sadam had WMDs. The intelligence turned out to be flat out wrong.

Almost anyone in the intel business, and anyone with a modicum of intellect, knew that the Iraqi government had no special weapons capability. I knew it, and if I knew it, thousands knew it.

Bushes main mistake was not firing the entire lot, on the spot. His second mistake was to try to modify the mission to fit the new circumstances. Yet his course of action should not have been modified.

There was never a plan in place with the slightest chance of success in Iraq.

The liberal, hate Bush crowd has offered so much hope and support to our enemy’s that they are still hanging on. They should all be hanged for treason.

It's time for death squads in America, he says.

Then there’s Pat. The stars and bars crowd will not have him, so where can he go? His support of our enemy is as bad or worse than the liberals. So I say hang him for treason as well.

Please believe me when I tell you that you don't want to go any farther with this line of thinking. We're not going to have death squads in America.

[snowman]

I read the same report and you are wrong. The report stated that nothing illegal was done and in fact that the analysis was improved by much constructive criticism. The WMD portion was unchanged. I get my news from sources like the WSJ, the acutal reports the gov publishes.

A good summary is given in todays WSJ editorial page.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by speeder
Actually, another damning study was just released that shows that the Pentagon bullied the intel community into revising their analysis of SH as a threat.

Not sure where you get your news, but it sure isn't from any legitimate source.

Do you have a link or copy of the report?

[RoninLB]

doesn't living the past over and over get boring ?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by RoninLB
doesn't living the past over and over get boring ?

Past is Prologue.

[DaveE]

Originally posted by fintstone
Do you have a link or copy of the report?

I don't want to speak for speeder; maybe this is what he was talking about:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070209/UPDATE/702090441/-1/rss

".......Levin pointed to statements by Vice President Dick Cheney and others before the war alleging the al-Qaida link and citing intelligence developed by Feith's office that had been leaked to a conservative magazine.

Among the inspector general's findings: Feith developed and distributed intelligence linking Iraq and al-Qaida; and Feith's conclusions differed from consensus judgments of the nation's intelligence community and were unsupported by the underlying intelligence data.

At issue is an organization called the Office of Special Plans, set up by Rumsfeld under Feith shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks. Democrats have long charged, and news reports have indicated, that Feith used the office to undermine conclusions by the CIA and other intelligence agencies that there was no link between Saddam and al-Qaida. Levin asked in 2005 for an inspector general's report on Feith's activities.

Most of the inspector general's report is classified, but according to a two-page unclassified summary, the report confirmed many of Levin's allegations.

The report found that Feith's activities did not break the law, and were authorized by Rumsfeld.

But "the actions were, in our opinion, inappropriate given that the intelligence assessments were intelligence products and did not clearly show the variance with the consensus of the Intelligence Community," the summary reads......."

[snowman]

Yeh, and bottom line, Bush NEVER lied.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by snowman
Yeh, and bottom line, Bush NEVER lied.

Bush II did authorize and order civilian homes to be targeted and bombed in Iraq. I know that this is fact because Bush II stated that he had done so on national TV. That's a war crime, and significantly worse than lying to America.

[Victor]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
What do you mean "we" here? You are not an American, and do not live in America. Go and play with a kangaroo.

COTW ya peanut.

[Victor]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
These people understand only one thing, and thats force.

Dear peanut,

Some questions:

1. Who are "these people" exactly?
2. Why are they not understanding the COTW message of force?
3. Are we not using enough of it? (Force)
4. Who was the popular historical figure who said "extreme problems demand extreme solutions"? (Hint: this is a translation from German).
5. You reckon we are in danger of taking a leaf out of his book? (Another hint: Mein K_mpf)

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Victor
COTW ya peanut.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - Herman Goering, April 18, 1946.

[Jim Richards]

Geez, Pat...I thought I was reading something from the Project for the New American Century.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Geez, Pat...I thought I was reading something from the Project for the New American Century.

All of the ideas at PNAC were borrowed. Mostly from Leon Trotsky, but from other fellow socialists as well.

[Jim Richards]

I think Orwell was an inspiration, too.

[stuartj]

Originally posted by fastpat
"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece.

Oh, its all changed since Hermann's day. Now the poor slob can back to the farm with a trade, a pension and maybe even a college education to go with his prosthetic limb.

And the undying gratitude of his country. (NA alert: This sentence may contain traces of irony)

[RoninLB]

Sen Levin's bs has been proved wrong by a 2004 Sen Intelligence Comm report, the Robb-Silberman Comm, and last week the Defense Dept Inspector General said to Congress that Feith's actions were authorized.

The issue with attacking Iraq was WMD stockpiles. CIA Dir Tenet said it was a "slam dunk" that Saddam had such stockpiles. Bush relied upon CIA for making his case for war.

afaik in the intelligence business almost nothing is certain. Before 9/11 the CIA's intel consensus was that terrorism was a minor problem.

Sen Levin is a political hack.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
I think Orwell was an inspiration, too.

Orwell frightens them, he was writing about the ultimate sociofascist state. Orwell is too revealing, he holds up the mirror and forces them to look into it.