Is there a neutral wire in this mess

1973911s · 02-10-2007, 10:46 AM

I am trying to figure out without the right tool if there was a neautral wire hooked up to this switch.

Michael

1973911s · 02-10-2007, 10:48 AM

What I have is the following.

A black and white that come from the old wires of the house. If I put tester on them, it lights up 110. The other black, white and red run to a newer three way switch.

Any help would be helpful.

turbo6bar · 02-10-2007, 11:54 AM

White is neutral. Check the black against the bare ground. You should get 110. Then, check the adjoining white (paired with the black) against the bare ground. You should get 0 or very low voltage

The bare wire (your ground) should be under the green screw in the top picture.
jurgen

Moneyguy1 · 02-10-2007, 12:13 PM

Sometimes an electrician will use a neutral as a return for an overhead light or a switched outlet. When used in that manner, the white wire is supposed to be painted black to indicate that it is "live". From the pix, it looks like that is a possibility.

Get yourself a cheap voltmeter. Take no chances.

elwood-914 · 02-10-2007, 01:00 PM

You definatly have that messed up. You need to look at the how the other switch is wired. I have seen a lot of peoples guess work or shoddy installs which usually means melted wires.

Show some pictures of the other 3 way switch.

tdatk · 02-10-2007, 02:12 PM

Is there a 3rd 3 way switch close by that works the light? What you have there is a 4 way switch and no, there is not a neutral there. In any wireing (per code) the neutral must never be switched. Try here for some simple diagrams that may help you.

Tim

turbo6bar · 02-10-2007, 02:25 PM

I apologize for the erroneous information.

Was a three way switch added at a later date?

nota · 02-10-2007, 03:24 PM

I got a digital VOM at harbor freight for 3.99 the other day
may not last as long as a good unit but sure can't beat the price

elwood-914 · 02-10-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdatk
Is there a 3rd 3 way switch close by that works the light? What you have there is a 4 way switch and no, there is not a neutral there. In any wireing (per code) the neutral must never be switched. Try here for some simple diagrams that may help you.

Tim

Tim, I think your mistaken. The switch looks like a 3-way, notice the dark screw and 2 light screws. He back and side wired the switch, putting wires where they will fit.

tdatk · 02-10-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elwood-914
Tim, I think your mistaken. The switch looks like a 3-way, notice the dark screw and 2 light screws. He back and side wired the switch, putting wires where they will fit.

Ya, I looked at the pic again, but I can't tell if the red wire is on a screw or not. Could be a 3 way as well, but he same rules apply,No neutral there. If it is a three way, there is some tapping of the power and one switched legs going on. It's hard to troubleshoot from here.

elwood-914 · 02-10-2007, 05:52 PM

That is why I asked for pictures of the other switch. The only time I ran a neutral to a switch is when it had an incandecent light inside of it.
I think he has to show me where the switch leg goes to the light before I can explain how to properly wire it.

Tim

Shuie · 06:03 PM

The white should be the neutral, but there is no way to tell how thats been wired without a meter. You can tie it to ground and then check to see that the circuit reads 220v on the meter. If so, then its the neutral.

disclaimer: I am not an electrician. all I know is that if you tie the neutral to ground, you get a 220V socket that will smoke a 120V appliance. Good luck.

elwood-914 · 02-10-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shuie
The white should be the neutral, but there is no way to tell how thats been wired without a meter. You can tie it to ground and then check to see that the circuit reads 220v on the meter. If so, then its the neutral.

disclaimer: I am not an electrician. all I know is that if you tie the neutral to ground, you get a 220V socket that will smoke a 120V appliance. Good luck.

Uh you don't even have to tie it to a ground. On a 3 wire circuit you just have to disconnect it in the wrong place........I havent done it but I have and apprentice who had to do a lot of explaining to his parents.

elwood-914 · 02-10-2007, 06:12 PM

Sometimes on 3-ways you will use the white for a jockey but that is all about how you wire it.

Shuie · 02-10-2007, 06:20 PM

This is getting dangerous. Call an electrician.

tdatk · 02-10-2007, 06:26 PM

I am an electrician. Master since 93.

elwood-914 · 02-10-2007, 06:33 PM

I've been an electrician since 1979.................now show me a picture of the other switch

Shuie · 02-10-2007, 06:34 PM

well, there it is. this place rocks. Please proceed before I burn something down

elwood-914 · 02-10-2007, 06:40 PM

I agree with you Shuie, I dont like to see anyone do his own electrical also but if he is not going there, I'll try and set him strait. If I was close by it would just take a beer after work to get that done. I have seen too many disasters.

turbo6bar · 02-11-2007, 04:41 PM

How does the tester light up when placed across the black and white wires? Assuming the black is hot, this means the white is tied to ground or neutral, right? Does that mean the bulb has to be lit at that moment?

Great link, tdatk