PC Im building is not booting up

[Sonic dB]

Any computer building techys here? If so, got a question:
Here are the details:

Im pretty experienced in building PCs that work... as it
used to be my business about 10 years ago and Ive
continued on throughout the years...

I have not built one in the past 3 years though... so
Im wondering if Im missing out on doing something with
this Intel Pentium Core 2 1.83 Ghz socket 775 CPU system.

I bought all of the stuff from TigerDirect.... new ATX case
(bought a 400W ps from Frys), 1GB DDR2 800mHz ram,
Intel 965 based mother board, the CPU mentioned above...
Ive already got some components such as HDDs, FDDs,
Video card, NIC etc...so I dont need them and did not purchase

Anyway, so 2 weeks ago, I hook everything up...flip on the power
and the fans and CPU fan start for about 1 second and then the
system powered off... I did everything to get it to try and work
including removing unneeded components, removing MB battery
etc.

Since then, I have swapped out the MB, Power Supply and RAM
to see if one of those components may be defective... I think
it may be a defective CPU, if you can believe that... Im not sure I
can because Ive never had one out of the box that was defective
before.... but the MB power light is on... and this is the 2nd MB
and I made sure its grounded, everything is hooked according
to spec...checked all manufacturers tech pages onlines and Im
just baffled as to what to do next.

basically the system powers on for 1 sec and then shuts down...
Is there any trick to working with these new CPUs that Im missing?

[jeffgrant]

Might be restating the obvious here, but in my experience, heat can be a huge issue, and it can happen in a hurry.

Be sure that you have the heat sink properly attached to the CPU (that means go through the hassle of doing the proper application of the thermal paste, etc).

If you don't it can overheat in well under a second.

Here's some video of old PIII's, and you can see that they fail VERY fast once the fan/heat-sink is off.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BSGcnRanYMM

[Joeaksa]

Second what Jeff said. Check that the CPU is well bonded to the fan and make sure that that is not an issue.

When you put power to the puppy if the heatsink is not making very good contact with the main chip it will get hot immediately and the overtemp protection circuit will shut things down.

[Sonic dB]

Thanks fellas. I have checked the fan over and over again to
make sure the contact is proper + I went out and bought more
thermal grease to make sure that it was properly covered after
so many attempts.

I was not happy with the way that the chip goes into the socket.
It goes in perfectly, but the lever/clip that comes down on top
to hold it in place seems to force the chip down quite a bit...
and the fan has an odd way of attaching... 4 hole clips that
are almost impossible to remove well.

Anyway, it sounds like what joe said...with protection shutting
the unit down, but it happens with like 1-2 seconds...very quickly
and much faster than those videos....so perhaps its not heat and
maybe something else....

[slodave]

Could be the power supply. You can always take a paper clip and "short" the green wire and a black wire (pins 14 and 15 on main conn) next to it to get an ATX power supply to turn on without being plugged into the MB. Be sure to unplug the supply rom the wall before you shove the paper clip in. Also make sure the supply is set to 115v instead of 220v.

Dave

[Sonic dB]

Dave...cool trick on the PS....just tried it and the PS
kicked on with no problems, so it works.

Do you know if there is a similar trick to test the PC fan to
make sure that it is working?

[MysticLlama]

This will happen if the board needs to be flashed, fairly common with C2Ds. If the stepping of the proc isn't exactly supported by the board it'll power up for a sec and then die.

Unfortunately, the fix requires a spare CPU. You can use a P4 or something older that will definately work to get it booted and flashed, and then you might be okay.

[slodave]

Originally posted by Sonic dB
Dave...cool trick on the PS....just tried it and the PS
kicked on with no problems, so it works.

Do you know if there is a similar trick to test the PC fan to
make sure that it is working?

PC fan should be 12v. You can try and put some leads in the +- and hook up a 9v battery. That should at least get the fan to spin slowly. If you happen to have a 12v battery lying around (I do) that would be best.

Dave

[Sonic dB]

Mystic...so I need to flash the bios on the board? or are you
talking about some flashing on the actual CPU that needs to
be done?

Can I do this with my laptop (dont think I can)....or do I need an actual spare CPU to plug into the board...and if so, why would that help?

"stepping of the proc, not supported by the board"

Its an Intel CPU and Intel MB, and it should be supported...
but its still common for the 'stepping' to be off?

thanks sorry for so many questions

[MysticLlama]

Yeah, you need to download a new BIOS from the manufactuer of the motherboard, and hopefully that'll fix it.

The reason you would need a spare CPU is because it doesn't like your C2D, so you have to get it booted up with something it will like, a pin compatible P4 would probably be fine.

I had the same problem with mine, with an ASUS board that did support C2Ds, it just didn't happen to support the 2.66 when I got it, only the slower ones. They already had the BIOS available for download on their site, it just was new enough that the board I got through a retailer had an older version on it. Dropped a P4 3.0 in it, flashed it, and it took the C2D fine. I had the same exact problem a year or so before with an early P4D 3.2.

As far as a laptop, you can flash those too with no problem, they don't always have pin compatible CPU upgrades though. And when they do, sometimes the laptop maker won't release a BIOS for them anyway.

[MysticLlama]

Stepping is the version of the CPU.

So yeah, you can have an Intel board that knows all about the C01/C02 stepping chips, but if you happen to have a C03 stepping chip, you'd have to put the newest BIOS on the motherboard for them to work together. (Just an example)

Yes, it does even happen with Intel/Intel stuff and AMD/AMD stuff, not just with 3rd party vendors, depending on how much different the next version of the CPU ended up being.

[slodave]

Is it an actual Intel MB? Your first post mentions "Intel 965 based MB". If is a real Intel board, what is the model #?

Dave

[Vipergrün]

Check the manufacture dates of the MB and CPU. If mobo is earlier than CPU, then you could have the aforementioned stepping issue. However, it seems that the 1 second interval may not even be long enough to initialize the processor. Sounds elecrical to me and it's shutting down to avoid blowing something... Also, if there are CPU and memory issues, a lot of systems will beep at you...just a thought.

[MysticLlama]

I was thinking the same thing until I saw that he was on his 2nd motherboard/power supply/ram.

RAM is very grouchy on newer systems though, and will act like that, not usually though, they typically get a little way through and freeze.

Maybe vid card? That usually just gets you beeps too though.


How is your power supply for motherboard power, do you have a 20 + 4, or a 24 + 4, or a single 24pin? Sometimes changing the way you have that plugged in can help. i.e. if it's a 20 with a detachable 4 in the 24 pin slot, take the detachable 4 out, just use the 20, and use the separate 4 pin by the CPU. (Not a likely problem if it'll power up at all though)

[Sonic dB]

Wow great info here... None of this is mentioned on
the TigerDirect or Intel websites... all they talk about is
the RAM SPD timings needing to be compatible, which they are.

So the question is: where do I get a "boot cpu" that I can
use to temporarily boot it in order to flash the board?

This seems like a Tiger Direct responsibility so I am going to
call them....

Dave, its an Intel manufacturered MB: DG965RY.
I also tried the DP965LT with the same result.
The chips on these boards are the same...except the RY has
onboard video...so for the $10 I upgraded to that the 2nd time
around.

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/ry/ry_mem.htm


Regarding the PS: I tried a 20pin and that didnt work at all...
the 24 pin gets me the 1-2 seconds... also I do have the 4 pin
side plug in as well...

Anyway, thanks to this thread, Im convinced that its either one
of the following 3 things:

1) dead CPU just isnt good out of the box
2) CPU timings not meeting MB, needs a flash

so im gonna now call TigerDirect and see if they can send me
a different chip to try...

[slodave]

I wish I had a matching CPU. I'd be happy to let you borrow it.

What are the specs of the memory? Make, model, registered, ECC...

Dave

[Sonic dB]

Just called TD and ordered a P4 3.0GB 800Hz cpu to use
as a boot-processor before flashing... costs $79, but they
said they will RMA it after Im done with it.

Specifications

Processor Speed 631 / 3.0Ghz

Processor Interface Socket 775

Bus Speed 800MHz

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1645056&CatId=1971


Dave...I have 2 memory sticks...one is Centon 1GB 800Hz ddr2
and the other is 512MB Ultra 533Hz ddr2

Both have compatible timings with the board of 5-5-5
so should be good there...

[Overpaid Slacker]

Sorry for joining late... have you tried booting with only 1 memory stick (preferably the Centon)?

I'm onboard with the stepping/BIOS issue. My $ is that will solve it. I just built a wicked fast box about 6 months ago, and the only pre-done thing was cpu/mobo + burn-in to avoid just this sort of thing.

JP

[Sonic dB]

Yeah tried both memory sticks, etc. along with various combinations
of hardware...

This is why I love Pelican BBS...so much wealth of knowledge and
experience to be shared.

Ill update this thread when I get the new CPU...

[MysticLlama]

Hmm, I've never seen a C2D board that wasn't dual-channel. Maybe it'll fail to a single stick of ram, but typically they need two matched exactly.

Those speeds and sizes are a lot different, and I'd doubt they'd work together. The timings are how fast the latency is when running a the stated speed, so 533mhz @ 5-5-5 is much slower than 800mhz @ 5-5-5.

Had I known that before, I'd say try a matched set of RAM first.

Did you overnight that proc from TD? If you're willing to be patient a couple days, I can probably pull and Priority mail you a proc and pair RAM sticks.