Candidates for President

[red-beard]

My wife and I were discussing the different candidates for President. On the whole, it seems pretty stupid to discuss them this early, but, it's in the news, etc.

So, we're kicking around what usually makes a good president, and where the good ones are from. You need demonstrated leadership, not being a voice in the choir. You need to be on the national and international stage and be well versed in these issues. Usually, the better presidents are former governors from larger states, ones which are border/coastal states or former Vice Presidents. None of the main candidates meet these criteria.

These do not:

Obama: A Short Term Senator from an Interior State
Hillary: A twice Elected Candidate from NYS, but with the best machine and backing.
Romney: Former Governor from a medium, Coastal State
Giuliani: Former Mayor of the largest City in the US, equiv to Governor of a medium, Coastal State, He does have international experience.
Newt Gingrich, Former Speaker of the House,

These Do:

Jeb Bush, Governor of a large Boarder/Coastal State.
Rick Perry, Governor of a large Boarder/Coastal State.
Al Gore, Former Vice President of the US

As much as I don't care for him, I think Al Gore would be the strongest candidate the Dems can put forward. Not a fan of Gore, his politics or views. But I do see him as having those qualities which could make him a successful Candidate. Add either Obama or Hillary, and I could see him winning. I seriously doubt that Hillary would accept being Veep to Gore, and delaying her run for President to 2012 or 2016. Therefore, I think Obama could make a great running mate. I doubt that

Republicans. Uggh. Every candidate has warts. On the national stage, I think Giuliani has the best national recognition and best chance in a National Election, but may not get past the primary/convention. I think Jeb or Romney have the best chance at the Primary/but would be weak national candidates.

Thoughts?

[jyl]

I don't really agree w/ your criteria for a good candidate, the part about favoring governors of large/border states or former VPs.

In theory it might make sense, but it doesn't match up with my views on the actual presidents.

Unfortunately I think it is more complex and uncertain than that. You could have a large/border state governor who never cared or knew about the world outside the US (thinking of Bush W here). Its like hiring based solely on a resume, without meeting the person or checking references - not usually successful.

(Here's the post-war Presidents and their last political position prior to the Presidency:

Nixon, Johnson, Ford, Bush Sr, Truman were former VPs.
Clinton, Carter were governors of small states AK and GA.
Reagan, Bush W were governors of large/border states CA and TX. Kennedy was a Senator from MA.
Eisenhower was a general.

Of the small-state governors, I have generally positive views on Clinton and generally negative views on Carter - that's 50/50.

Of the former VPs, I have no opinion on Truman, think Ford was a non-factor, somewhat positive views of Johnson and Bush Sr, generally negative views of Nixon - no real correlation there.

Of the large-state governors, I have negative views on Bush W and mixed views on Reagan - no positive correlation there.

I have generally positive views on the lone Senator, Kennedy - though after 34 years of the "Camelot" story it is hard to distinguish between myth and man.

I have no opinion on Eisenhower. Too long ago.

So, not a lot of correlation, and obviously the sample is too small anyway.)

[Scooter]

I disagree with your presumption and your analysis. Gore is a horrible candidate for the Dems and Giuliani will definitely get through the primaries with the nomination. Jeb's not going to run.

IMHO.

[jyl]

Some random thoughts I'm having on the candidates.

How long can you play the same old schtick? Guiliani's blowing the same "9/11" horn that Bush has been playing for 6 years. Voters eventually get tired of the same old schtick. Maybe that well has been sucked dry.

How much do looks matter? Which Dem would Madison Avenue pick for a TV ad campaign? Hillary is an older woman, not-model-beautiful. Obama is black. What about John Edwards? White, man, good-looking, youthful - hmm, we can sell soap with that.

Can you peak too soon? The curse of the front-runner. Everyone shoots at you. The media builds you up, then tears you down. Voters get bored.

How nasty do you want to get? Dem and Rep groups are gathering dirt and story-boarding attack ads right now. Wouldn't you like to be the guy assigned to Guiliani? Serial divorcer, corrupt protegees, loves gays, advocates abortion, etc.

No second chances. Americans have short attention spans and we scorn failure. You either make President on your first serious try, or you don't ever make it. Kerry doesn't get a second chance. Neither will Gore.

The Toxic President. The country is turning on Bush. Look at PPOT - not a lot of GW fans speaking up anymore. Any association with Bush is going to be toxic. So long Jeb.

[legion]

Originally posted by jyl

The Toxic President. The country is turning on Bush. Look at PPOT - not a lot of GW fans speaking up anymore. Any association with Bush is going to be toxic. So long Jeb.

Or...some of us are simply sick of engaging in the same tired circular arguments and have moved on. We all know that with some people, Bush could cure cancer and they'd still find something to b!tch about...while inventing some imaginary tie-in to how Halliburton would profit.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by legion
Or...some of us are simply sick of engaging in the same tired circular arguments and have moved on. We all know that with some people, Bush could cure cancer and they'd still find something to b!tch about...while inventing some imaginary tie-in to how Halliburton would profit.

+1

[Rearden]

Originally posted by jyl
No second chances. Americans have short attention spans and we scorn failure. You either make President on your first serious try, or you don't ever make it. Kerry doesn't get a second chance. Neither will Gore.

Richard Nixon
Ronald Reagan

[red-beard]

So, what are your criteria for a good sucessful candidate?

[fintstone]

Obama and Hillary are both in Selma Alabama today...each trying to convince black voters that they are blacker than the other. Must be tough to have nothing more to run on.

[jyl]

Originally posted by legion
Or...some of us are simply sick of engaging in the same tired circular arguments and have moved on. We all know that with some people, Bush could cure cancer and they'd still find something to b!tch about...while inventing some imaginary tie-in to how Halliburton would profit.

I'm not questioning your reasons, but whatever they may be, the fact is that fewer GW fans are speaking up for him, here on PPOT. Same in Congress. Same in the country. Vying for the worst approval ratings ever is not a Good Thing. Hence, The Toxic President.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Rearden
Richard Nixon
Ronald Reagan

George Bush Sr.

[Scooter]

Originally posted by red-beard
So, what are your criteria for a good sucessful candidate?

#1 - They have to be a Pelican.

#2 - The can't be Fastpat.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by jyl
I'm not questioning your reasons, but whatever they may be, the fact is that fewer GW fans are speaking up for him, here on PPOT. Same in Congress. Same in the country. Vying for the worst approval ratings ever is not a Good Thing. Hence, The Toxic President.

As posted...it is just not worth the effort. GW is running for no office. He is only trying to run the country and win a war...in spite of the anti-war left. We can move on...why can't you?

[red-beard]

Well, I am announcing my candidacy for President of the United States of America, for 2016! I think a 10 year campaign is about right.

[jyl]

Originally posted by red-beard
So, what are your criteria for a good sucessful candidate?

1. Photogenic.

2. Gift of gab (good speaker - on the stump and debates).

3. Looks sincere (somebody Joe Six-Pack thinks he can relate to).

4. Inspirational personal story (rags-to-riches is always good).

5. In step with the voters on today's hot issues.

6. Favored by party fundraisers and power brokers.

7. Strong organization, with seasoned operatives and advisors.

8. Not too many skeletons in the closet.

9. Don't say you'll raise taxes.


I think Hilary fails on 1) and 3), is strong on 6) and 7).

Obama I'm not sure on 1) and 3), 8) is a problem too.

Guiliani has a problem with 8) and I think 5).

McCain is struggling with 6) and 8), 5) will be an issue too.

Romney I don't know much about, besides 8).

Edwards may have a problem with 3) and 9).

Richardson my initial impression is needs help with 1) 6) and 7).

[Scooter]

Tell me what skeletons Rudy has, please? I keep hearing this, but I won't take the bait until someone shows me some proof.

[Rearden]

Originally posted by Scooter
Tell me what skeletons Rudy has, please? I keep hearing this, but I won't take the bait until someone shows me some proof.

They usually refer to the fact that he was divorced. To the Republican faithful who vote in primaries, his pro-choice and gun-control positions are a problem. Or maybe not this time around. We'll have to see.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by jyl
1. Photogenic.
2. Gift of gab (good speaker - on the stump and debates).
3. Looks sincere (somebody Joe Six-Pack thinks he can relate to).
4. Inspirational personal story (rags-to-riches is always good).
5. In step with the voters on today's hot issues.
6. Favored by party fundraisers and power brokers.
7. Strong organization, with seasoned operatives and advisors.
8. Not too many skeletons in the closet.
9. Don't say you'll raise taxes.

So experience and knowledge have no bearing?

[Scooter]

Divorce is not a skeleton. Give me proof of something, please.

[jyl]

Originally posted by Scooter
Tell me what skeletons Rudy has, please? I keep hearing this, but I won't take the bait until someone shows me some proof.

Damnit, I had a long response typed, w/ links, then lost it. Now I have to go.

So, briefly:

- Repeated divorce, first time from his second cousin, public infidelity.
- On record as supporting abortion rights, said he'd give his own daughter money for an abortion.
- On record as supporting gay marriage, opposed Bush's call for a ban
- Bernard Kerik, look him up.
- Supports gun control including Brady Bill, Assault Weapon ban, and Bloomberg's gun control initiatives

Start there and Google.

If the attack dogs can turn Kerry's Vietnam medals into an act of treason, don't you think they can do a number on Rudy?

P.S. Think like a Republican primary voter.