Lemon Law: Anyone been through the process?

motion · 12-05-2006, 03:02 PM

I have a 2004 Ford F250 PSD that has been in the shop 21 times since I bought it in April 04. It's been in the shop a total of 45 days and has 29000 miles on it. Several items have been "fixed" at least 2-4 times. Based on the situation, I qualify for relief under the California Lemon Law (Magnusson Moss Warranty Act). I notified Ford via certified letter and they have denied my claims. So, working on my next move, which it looks like is notification to the BBB Auto Line, then possibly arbitration.

I'm looking for any additional experience and wisdom any of you might have to help arm myself for war with Ford. I know they will push for arbitration, but I would like to avoid that. Any tips?

Steve Carlton · 12-05-2006, 03:16 PM

Just hire an attorney. It won't cost you a dime. Michael Saunders has succeeded 4 out of 4 times for friends of mine.

motion · 12-05-2006, 03:19 PM

Steve, how can it not cost me a dime? The Lemon Law does not allow for the manuf to reimburse the lossee for attorney fees.

Steve Carlton · 12-05-2006, 03:25 PM

Pretty sure it does. Saunders got $2,500, and I'm 99% certain that amount was added to the settlement.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Susbcribing to this thread, since I just mailed my Breitling Hercules back to Breitling last week for the FOURTH time since I got it in June.

motion · 12-05-2006, 03:37 PM

Looks like I might be wrong based on what I'm reading on various attorney websites. Of course, my assumption is that they are being disingenuous. Mebbe I'll give Saunders a call. Thanks for the tip.

HardDrive · 12-05-2006, 09:23 PM

Your truck is a diesel? Were the problems engine related?

motion · 12-06-2006, 05:43 AM

Yes... CELs, rear main seal oil leaks, low power & loud turbo bleed noises upon decel. Many of 'em.

Zeke · 12-06-2006, 07:49 AM

I had a Grand Cherokee that almost qualified for the lemon laws and I investigated the process. It's lengthy and difficult, just like the MM thread says about the bad engine rebuilds. My B-in-law did return a Ford truck to the dealer, but he pressured the dealer directly. A lot sooner after the sale than your case. They gave him another truck and he paid only for the difference in upgrades. Not a bad deal even if they made a grand on the upgrades because he got full sales credit for a "used" vehicle.

His problem related to the trans. The block turned out to not be square to the trans. Seals for him too, IIRC. He is kind of a know-it-all, but he works in Laguna Niguel at a body shop if you want to talk to him. Being around cars all the time and their problems, he might have some insight. PM me.

I can tell you this is certainly a case of the squeaky wheel gets the grease. You're gonna have to work pretty hard to return that truck, me thinks. I don't know if 45 days in this amount of time will get it. Sad to think, but likely true. That's why I drive a 16 YO truck. I know what I have and it works. I could never buy a new car or truck. Maybe a GT3 if I had the money, but the rest are better bought used with the paper work to see what the pedigree is.

MRM · 12-06-2006, 04:18 PM

I'm pretty sure the federal Magnuson Moss Warranty Act has an attorneys' fees provision.

M.D. Holloway · 12-06-2006, 06:52 PM

Motion - I lemon law'd a Dodge Grand Caravan 3 years ago. In Texas all the forms are avilable on line. You file with the Dept of Motor Vehcles and provide copies of the reciepts for the work done. There are two ways to go - safety or performance. If accepted the dept will call for a 'heqring' which means a rep from the Auto maker, the service manager of the garage, the rep from the dept and you.

Our claim was safety, the car would miss downshifting from 3rd to 2nd and go straight to 1st which jerked the **** of you. Sometimes it would not shift into drive and on several occansions the tailgate would open without provocation. We won our case and were refunded 100% of all monies from Dodge.

You don't need a lawyer.

wcc · 02:59 AM

I went through the process here in Michigan. I just called a Lemon Law attorney and I didn't have to pay a dime. They took care of everything and all I had to do was show up on the day of return. Their fee was paid for by GM, cause I had a GM product at the time. They (GM) paid off the balance and that was that. Hope everything works out for you..... Keep us posted!

M.D. Holloway · 12-06-2006, 07:07 PM

Richard,
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - Warranties that specify a particular brand name product for validity purposes must also provide that product at no charge. Obviously, most OEM’s do not provide maintenance products for free.

The most common way for a warranty to be valid is for the OEM to state that the product must meet industry accepted minimum specifications. If a product meets or exceeds these specifications, then the warranty is valid.

Therefore, warranties are not voided simply by the use of a particular brand. OEM’s with a major manufacturer listed are not endorsing such brands, but simply have chosen them because they are well known and meet their minimum required specifications.

Here is something I found:

FEDERAL WARRANTY LAW
“Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act”
from the
Federal Trade Commission

700.10 Section 102 (c).
(a) Section 102 (c) prohibits tying arrangements that condition
coverage under a written warranty on the consumer’s use of an
article or service identified by brand, trade, or corporate name
unless that article or service is provided without charge to the
consumer.

(b) Under a limited warranty that provides only for replacement of
defective parts and no portion of labor charges, section 102 (c)
prohibits a condition that the consumer use only service (labor)
identified by the warrantor to install the replacement parts. A
warrantor or his designated representative may not provide parts
under the warranty in a manner which impedes or precludes the
choice by the consumer of the person or business to perform
necessary labor to install such parts.

(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty
on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized
replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance.

A complete copy of the “Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act” may be obtained from,

FTC Headquarters
6th & Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.
Washington, DC 20580

202-326-2222

Dave 86 930 Fl · 12-07-2006, 01:32 AM

Back in 1994 I purchased a new Dodge pickup and had nothing but trouble with the truck. I filed all of the lemon law paperwork that came with the vehicle, painted "Dodge Lemon" on the sides & back of the truck with white shoe polish and parked it at the Home Depot for two weeks. Some guy called me from Detroit (Dodge Corp.) and offered to buy the vehicle back. Appearantly they have been very happy with their purchase because I never heard from them again. BTW, I will never own a Dodge vehicle again.

motion · 12-07-2006, 01:37 PM

Dave, that's good, very good.

Steve - I called Mike. Thanks for the tip. This might work out.

You guys are correct, it looks like Ford will have to pay the attorney if I win the case. I don't expect this to be easy. After all, its over $50k and I doubt Ford is going to just roll over on this.

Mike - The truck is all stock except for a couple of body accys. Thank God I didn't put that SuperChip in it

Milt - The California Lemon Law says that if the vehicle has been in the shop 30 days or more during the warranty period, it qualifies for refund or replacement.

motion · 03-22-2007, 05:28 AM

Just an update for the archives. I used Steve's advice and hired an attorney. Things went smoothly and the truck is back with Ford now. They refunded me back all my money and were actually pretty good to work with, if a little bit slow. +1 for a great law that does actually protect consumers.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Excellent story! Good to hear you got it all worked out!

M.D. Holloway · 03-22-2007, 07:07 AM

Richard,
Did the dealership or auto maker cover the legal fees?

LeeH · 03-22-2007, 07:08 AM

I see "manufacturer's buyback" vehicles going through the wholesale auto auction... a lot of Mercedes. I always wonder if they do anything to them or just pass them through.

motion · 03-22-2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Richard,
Did the dealership or auto maker cover the legal fees?

Mike,

Yes, Ford covered the $2500 attorney fee. If I was an attorney, I think I'd go in this direction of law. Make a few phone calls to your contact at the manufacturer, push around a few pieces of paper, get $2500. Not bad, considering the law is basically black and white to begin with, unlike most aspects of law.