One More for the Shooters

Jeff Higgins · 03-22-2007, 05:44 AM

O.k., I'm not sure how many of you are hand loaders. Following are some photos of the most thoroughly "blowed up" gun I think I have ever seen. Herein we can find a valuable lesson; there are limits to everything.

This is a Marlin model 1895 that has been rechambered from .45-70 to .450 Alaskan. The .450 Alaskan was devloped in the late '40's by a man named Johnson in, of all places, Alaska. It provides a useful increase in power over the .45-70, something he felt was important, considering where he lived. It consists of a .348 Winchester case necked up to take .45 caliber bullets. He was building them on Winchester Model 71 and 1886 lever gun actions. Never comerically available, it has none the less become a cult classic for us lever gun fans. It approaches .458 Winchester Magnum ballistics when loaded properly.

"Loaded properly" is key to all of this. This gun was vastly over-loaded by an inexperienced reloader. He survived with no more than stitches to his left hand, which is a miracle in itself. I guess it never ceases to amaze me, with the ready access to information we enjoy today, that this kind of thing can still happen. Anyway, here are the pics:

Joeaksa · 03-22-2007, 06:03 AM

Boy, that is a bad one. Surprised that this guy walked away.

Have a friend in the UK who just had a Ruger bolt action just blow up, on factory ammo. He spent a few days in the hospital and had vision problems for a while but is ok now.

charleskieffner · 03-22-2007, 06:29 AM

saw a ruger super redhawk .44 mag blown up . classic double powder dose. blew cylinder apart, broke back strap, blew barrel off of gun.

scary is an understatement seeing a lever action receiver, especially a marlin which is built like a t-34 russian tank, come apart!

Jim Bremner · 03-22-2007, 06:42 AM

will Zaino help buff it out?

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

A friend blew up an original Ballard 45/90 by using smokeless powder. Normally one can get away with that by using the proper powder which duplicates the pressure curve of Black Powder. He, however, was sipping Southern Comfort and watching TV while reloading and double charged a few cases. When it blew it sent pieces down range up to 65 yards and a piece of the receiver up thru the corrugated steel overhang sideways. He was luckily unhurt. He found three more double charged cases when he got home.

Jeff Higgins · 03-22-2007, 07:07 AM

Nothing but black powder goes into my original Ballard Pacific, nor any of my Sharps replicas. I now own three .45-70 rifles, with only the new Marlin digesting smokeless. All use cast bullets only. The mold I use for the Marlin produces a bullet with a long, full diameter front driving band that will not allow it to even chamber in the Ballard.

The load that took the above rifle apart is generally considered to be about 12% over maximum for the .450 Alaskan. There seems to be the missconception that when loading these big bore rounds, the expansion ratio is so much faster than small bore bottle neck (.30-'06 and the like) that it is difficult to raise undue pressures, as long as the proper powder/bullet combination is chosen. True enough with black powder, but very dangerous with smokeless, no matter how slow burning. That is, by the way, why many of us consider smokeless powders a "passing fad".

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Jeff,
The guy I mentioned was using 5744 in his Ballard. A standard charge will shoot OK and be fairly safe but, like you, I would NOT use s'less in an original gun. I also cast (20:1 alloy) in my 45/90, 38-55 and 38-70 and with pure Black one can get an extreme spread in muzzle velocity of under ten fps. Never happen with any s'less powder I know of.

RPKESQ · 03-22-2007, 11:42 AM

Most people forget what is job #1 for a firearm.

Job#1 Set off an explosive charge next to your face or body in complete safety, period.

Everything else is lower in priority.

Jeff Higgins · 03-22-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RPKESQ
Most people forget what is job #1 for a firearm.

Job#1 Set off an explosive charge next to your face or body in complete safety, period.

Everything else is lower in priority.

Absolutely. Need more power? Get a bigger gun; don't compromse safety with the one you have. I don't think very many people even stop to consider what it is they are doing. Hmm... Let's see, grab ahold of this device, capable of generating 60,000 psi and light it off while holding it 6" in front of your face. But wait; 60,000 psi isn't enough; let's try 65,000, or 70,000... doesn't seem to hurt anything, what do the "experts" know anyway? Most folks only get to make one mistake playing this game. This guy was very, very lucky.

Drdogface, I like your cartridge selection. That .38-70 must be a real challenge, though. It's a bottleneck, isn't it? That, coupled with all that capacity in a .38 bore must make life interesting.

I currently load black powder for two .45-70's, the original Ballard and a C. Sharps '75. I've got another C. Sharps, a model '74, in .45-2.6 (aka .45-100) as well. I typically load my .45 Colts for my Peacemaker with black powder, finding it shoots as well or better than smokeless in that caliber.

I played with an original Highwall (flat spring, narrow side) in .40-70 Sharps Straight for a few years before trading it off to a shooting buddy. It had the typical oversize bore / undersize chamber combination so prevelant in that era, so all it would shoot were bore diameter, paper patch, pure lead bullets in fixed ammunition. It shot well when breech-seating groove diameter bullets, but that's not very practical in a hunting rifle. Too much work rolling those darn patches on or breech seating, so I gave it up. My buddy has since had the chamber opened up to allow chambering of groove diameter bullets in reworked .30-40 Krag brass, and it shoots quite well for him.

M.D. Holloway · 03-22-2007, 07:15 PM

Didn't Mythbusters do an episode on the cartoon myth of sticking your finger in the barrel to stop the bullet? You'd be surprised what they found out.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins

Drdogface, I like your cartridge selection. That .38-70 must be a real challenge, though. It's a bottleneck, isn't it? That, coupled with all that capacity in a .38 bore must make life interesting.

Hammer,
Actually the 38-70 is a wonderful round. It is an original BP round but only chambered in the Win 1886 and not many of those. We have reworked it to a single shot in a 12 twist bbl. With 71.5 gr of Swiss it'll reach 1400 fps and is very accurate out to 1000 yards..as long a range as I have tested it. Yes, it is slightly bottle neck and made from 45/90 brass necked down. Ours is also neck turned to fit the match chamber but that's not really necessary in less than match conditions. Due to it being bottle neck we can only compress about 50 thou..no more. BTW, I have not used a blow tube in years...all of us wipe between shots with two patches dampend with water plus 10% soluable oil. Eliminate the variables...name of the game.

VincentVega · 03-22-2007, 07:50 PM

That's scary!

I use reloaded ammo, but am nervous for just this reason. I wonder what the odds of a misfire are for a standard piston round, 9mm, .40, .45...

HardDrive · 03-22-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Martin
That's scary!

I use reloaded ammo, but am nervous for just this reason. I wonder what the odds of a misfire are for a standard piston round, 9mm, .40, .45...

It is doubtful that commercial hand loaders are doing them by hand. Of course, I don't know what the #$%#%$ I'm taking about. Anyone here familiar with a commercial reload operation?

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
. Anyone here familiar with a commercial reload operation?

Yes...Miwall is a commercial reload operation here in Grass Valley, Ca. It's all mechanized like you suggest. There are lots of others...smaller operations...and even the casting is pretty much mechanized....has to be to make any money. I'm sure the insurance is pricey.