Modifying Daily Drivers? How far?

SlowToady · 03-27-2007, 08:42 AM

For those that don't know, I originally had an NA 86 944. It was leight, low slung, and had decent (for a kid) power. Then I got into a hit and run and now I'm driving a 2001 VW Golf 2.0. It heavier, sits higher, and has about 60 less HP. At leas it's got a 5spd. As you can imagaine, it isn't too inspiring to drive. Which leads me to...

Supercharhing. Is it really as easy as Neuspeed would have you believe? Buy a kit, take a weekend, slap the SC on, follow some instructions, flash/upgrade ECU and BAM, 50 more HP? How much does it *really* cost? How close to correct is the "one size fits all" software? Is going forced induction on a 71K mile engine a bad idea? It's mostly highway miles; previously owned by an older gentleman who bought a GTi, and I use it to drive to school (Chicago to Lexington) and work. Doesn't get beat on, but sees occassional spirited driving. I have access to a motorcycle to ride in the summer while the car is down for SC project.

Or should I just not worry about it? I have a 5 year note on the car, I'm 1 year and 3 months through it. I'm planning on driving it for the next 5 years or so; until I'm through Undergrad and maybe Grad school. It's sort of killing me to drive such a slug. Semi trucks beat me off stop lights:-P It seems like it'd be REALLY fun to drive with some more power; my brother had a mildly modded 1.8T and it was a LOT of fun, and plenty quick.

I guess I figure I could modify it a little now and continue driving it for 5 years, then buy something faster/sportier when I get a Real Job(tm) after college. Or I could drive it stock (less than inspiring) for 5 years, then buy something faster/sportier. Realistically, ~$2200 for the SC kit over the next 5 years doesn't seem to bad. I spent almost $1300 in brakes on the 944 and it got totaled shortly after (boy was I pissed! Hope the new owner used them!!!).

What I *really* want to do is sell it and get a $500 beater Dodge Neon from my buddy, and buy a Ducati 748. But that won't happen

Or buy a 951, but since dad's name is on the note, too, he'd never let me sell it to buy one. Says he wants me in something reliable because of the 440 mile drive to school. I could probably talk him into letting me SC it though...

I don't know..I'm appealing the wisdom on the PPOT Brain Trust. I see a lot of guys (espeically around here) who spent their youth wrenching on fast cars and bikes and I'm like...I'VE WANTED TO DO THAT FOREVER. I was originally going to buy a 340 Duster:-P Anyway...What does the Brain Trust rule?

the · 03-27-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowToady
For those that don't know, I originally had an NA 86 944. It was leight, low slung, and had decent (for a kid) power. Then I got into a hit and run and now I'm driving a 2001 VW Golf 2.0. It heavier, sits higher, and has about 60 less HP.

Wow, a Golf 2.0 only has 80-something horsepower?

VW 2.0s were putting out 80 hp in the 1970s. That's not a lot of progress by VW.

many944s · 03-27-2007, 09:06 AM

Ok, I am going to put on my Nomex before I even hit "post reply"...

Have you ever driven a tricked out Neon?!?
A couple of years ago a buddy of mine wanted to make a sleeper car, so he bought a '95 Ply. Neon. We lightened it, changed out the suspension with adjustable Koni's. Installed the high flow intake, turbo, aftermarket ecu, 3" exhaust, upgraded the tranny, front & rear sway bars, larger rims with zx tires. Sure it didn't look like much but that thing would FLY!! And we spent less than 5K on the whole project! He had it paid for after a month and a half dragging it at the local drag strip! (legal drag strip I should say)

ok.... flame on.

-Nick

dd74 · 03-27-2007, 09:49 AM

I don't know. Modifying is so personal, it's like asking a guy if he prefers blonds or brunettes. My opinion is to weigh your options. Before putting thousands of $$$ into a Golf, have a look at what else is out there that is purpose built with performance in mind. For example: two performance bargains IMO are the Honda Civic Si and the Mazda RX8. Both cars seem to require very little modification as they're both very fast out of the box. There is also the option of buying another Porsche. At that point I'd look at an SC or later Carrera, which really require no modification.

It's a hard call - I know it. You want to play with what you have. But sometimes what you have just isn't up to the task of a car built exclusively for performance driving.

FWIW , I wouldn't install any after market supercharger on a car I owned, simply because it isn't OEM (unless specified and backed by a factory warranty). So if you align yourself with my thinking in that regard, you've already limited yourself as far as your Golf is concerned.

id10t · 03-27-2007, 09:58 AM

Leave your driver alone - and buy somethign else to start playing with and building up.

deathpunk dan · 03-27-2007, 10:07 AM

Leave it alone...it's not really worth throwing money at. The 2.0 engine has used a cast crank since 96 and in general sucks compared to the older SOHC VW motors.

The only way to go with it is forced induction via blower but I'm not sure how well those kits work with OBD2 cars. Check vwvortex.

I'd rather just drive it til I could find a TDI (chipped TDI=awesome) or something else more exciting.

Test drive an SVT focus sometime...

masraum · 03-27-2007, 10:09 AM

adding a SC to your car might give you more power and smiles per mile and may not affect the longevity of the car at all. Of course it's also possible that a month or even 6 months later you could end up with an engine with screwed pistons and rings that doesn't run.

It's up to you, good luck.

pwd72s · 03-27-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by id10t
Leave your driver alone - and buy somethign else to start playing with and building up.

I lean towards this school. Our daily driver is a 1999 Ford Ranger XLT with the 4.0 engine. We've left the engine alone. Didn't even go with fancy wheels. Just added a $500 set of edelbrock shocks (they're great!) to improve ride & handling, added a spray in bedliner, a tonneau...comfort items for the grocery hauler. Oh, a cargo bar so the grocery bags don't slide around in back.

I just never could understand the concept of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse. IMO, mods are for "special" cars.

cashflyer · 03-27-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by the
Wow, a Golf 2.0 only has 80-something horsepower?
VW 2.0s were putting out 80 hp in the 1970s.

1975 Fiat 1.8L = 95hp.

Anyway... here's my take with the bolt on SC kits.

Computer controlled cars can have the ECU tweaked, flashed, etc, to accommodate a low level of boost. This is done by altering the timing and by holding the injectors open longer. When you start going with moderate to high levels of boost, you can have potential problems, including reduced engine life - regardless of what the ricer companies want you to believe.

1) An injector can only deliver at it's design limit. More boost needs more fuel, therefore, you will need higher flow injectors for big boost. If you go with big boost and do not compensate with fuel, then you are running lean - and HOT. Lean conditions cause CHT & EGT to skyrocket.

B) Boost = horsepower. Your engine was engineered to handle a determined amount of horsepower. How much can you boost before warping a rod? Before snapping a trans mount? Before twisting an axle?

#) A head gasket is designed to seal a certain amount of cylinder pressure. Big boost requires mods to the mounting surface to increase clamping force.

Maybe you didn't mean that much boost.....

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

See also "polishing a turd".

If you want a fast car, buy a fast car and then mod it if you need it to be faster. Don't try to make a slow car into a fast car. It's ricey, less safe and ultimately a LOT bigger of a money pit.

rammstein · 03-27-2007, 10:53 AM

Seeing as how reliability is a big factor, I would personally be afraid to supercharge. I am not qualified to make any statements though.

Maybe go a different direction with the golf- strip out whatever weight you can. Maybe find some carbonfiber or fiberglass panels on wrecked racers. Definitely hit up the suspension, brakes, etc. None of that can hurt it, and the lightness should also get you better mileage. You can tackle one thing at a time, for no real downtime. If you only do what you can find used/cheap, its not too bad, especially if you are replacing wearable items that needed it anyhow (like suspension/brakes).

You could also try a turbinator- its guaranteed to give you a bunch of horsepowers.

Superman · 03-27-2007, 11:06 AM

My suggestion is to get a '69 VE Beetle with hard tires and learn to drive that. Then put good tires on, and learn all over again. Then put a better engine in and kick some butt at your local track. In the hands of a talented driver, a VW Beetle can go very fast.

If you want high horsepower and straight line speed, then you don't need talent. You need a Supra, or something. Driving talent and need for high horsepower are inversely correlated.

the · 03-27-2007, 11:11 AM

But if you want my answer, I'd focus on school and not worry about hotrodding econoboxes or any other car. You only get one shot at school, trying to get into the best grad school you can, etc.

You'll have plenty of time for cars later, these next few years will affect the rest of your life and you don't get a "do over."

island911 · 03-27-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
See also "polishing a turd".

If you want a fast car, buy a fast car and then mod it if you need it to be faster. Don't try to make a slow car into a fast car. It's ricey, less safe and ultimately a LOT bigger of a money pit.

Exactly!

btdt. ..Yep, back in the day, when I was 17, I did all that . . By the time I was 18/19 I found myself chasing fatigue cracks with extra welded-in plates. --The prob' being the body shells cant take the torque for long. ..leading to stress cracks and tears around the motor mounts. Same goes for the suspension points with a lowered/stiff setup.

As the saying goes; A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Speaking of. .. get ready to get good at tearing in to gearboxes. --those are not too strong either. Ever spin (break) a VW CV? -- I have. It's almost as if the WHOLE car was designed as a grocery-getter.

SlowToady · 03-27-2007, 11:55 AM

I knew I'd get well thought out replies from OT:-D One thing I like about this board is people almsot always stop to take and the time to really think about an answer, and seem to consider the OPs situation.

the, 2.0 Golf put out ~100HP at the crank. I think the NA 944 put out about 150 at the crank. So I guess it's really a 50HP difference. Feels like a 100 though.

I'd like to find a TDI, I wanted one at the time. However, I needed a car RIGHT NOW because I had school and work and basically bought one of the first cars I saw that I could afford and that I got a decent deal on. I would have prefered to wait, but that wasn't an option.

The current longer term plan is to buy a used C4S once I get a Real Job(tm) after college, but gas prices where I live are already $3.0/gal and not going down any time soon. I guess the upshot is I won't be living anywhere close to there once I get out on my own fully (one of the richest counties in America). So, basically, what I think is that the current gas fiasco is going to make fast sports cars a thing of the past for all but the well to do. I guess buy it now and have fun...who knows.

Masraum, that's one of the reasons I'm tossed up on it. I don't want the engine grenading, or excessively wearing prematurely.

What I would prefer to do is to sell it and get a beater Neon or Corolla and buy a Duc 748/916 and mod that..but, that's not going to happen.

I'd be lying if I said I was slightly envious of the other guys my age running around in Mustang Cobra's, 350Zs, Mustang GTs, WRX STi's, etc. DD74, an RX8 or even a new Civic is out of my price range. I guess I could afford it, but I HATE monthly payments..even as small as mine is, I don't want to make it any bigger. You're right about the Golf not being much of a performance oriented car, another reason I'm not sure about modifying it. A 951 would give more fun, at less (at least initial) cost. Don't think dad would let that happen.

the · 03-27-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowToady

the, 2.0 Golf put out ~100HP at the crank. I think the NA 944 put out about 150 at the crank. So I guess it's really a 50HP difference. Feels like a 100 though.

That's amazing that a modern car manufacturer makes a 2.0 engine that only puts out 100 hp at the crank, in this day and age.

Dave L · 03-27-2007, 12:07 PM

a coworker of mine turbo'ed his Acrua RSX type S. Its his only car and his job involves driving a lot. The car is fast as hell but he is looking for a factory turbo charged car now as the RSX is simply a PITA. I have my Protege 5 which is as basic as you can get and is 100% bone stock, cheap to run, insure and put gas in. I also have the 944s which is the fun car. If you liked the 944 why not save up and get another in addition to the golf?

notfarnow · 03-27-2007, 12:55 PM

Does the 2001 2.0 still have an ABA code engine? Some guys are buying the turbos & manifolds off VW diesels and bolting them on.

Apparently a 1.8 or 2.0 gas engine gets pretty fiesty with a Garrett T3 or KKK24.

SlowToady · 03-27-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by notfarnow
Does the 2001 2.0 still have an ABA code engine? Some guys are buying the turbos & manifolds off VW diesels and bolting them on.

Apparently a 1.8 or 2.0 gas engine gets pretty fiesty with a Garrett T3 or KKK24.

My engine has a date code of 22-05-00 so that makes it an AEG code engine. Bummer:-/ I think the ABA was the MKIII Golf/Jetta?

MikeTheYounger · 03-28-2007, 05:59 AM

the 2.0 in the Golf is 115hp and about the same in torque. The strong point of that engine is that it is robust and reliable. It's not the same as the ABA, which is a very popular engine to turbo in Mk3's and to swap into Mk1 and Mk2's.

The Neuspeed kit is actually very good, but it's not going to get you the power that a chipped 1.8T can give you, or a VR6 with bolt-ons. The only complaint I hear with anything Neuspeed is that they are expensive.

My suggestion is if you have the mod bug, throw money into the suspension and a 2.25" cat-back. Techtonics Tuning has a few cam and chip combos available for that car that don't require you to change valve springs, but I don't know if you want to start taking things apart.

Check out www.vwvortex.com for tons of info.

Good Luck