Hence my point of the original post. The person that got pulled over in the SECOND speed trap this morning was doing NOTHING out of the ordinary. Could just as well have been me, the guy next to me or any of the 15 or 20 other cars in our "pack". Like shooting fish in a barrel - no rhyme or reason to it that I could see. Just didn't like the guy's haircut or something. Who knows.

The "speed laws save lives" thing is complete B.S. In this case it's just patently ridiculous. As has been stated, if someone were to drop down to exactly 40 mph in this situation, they'd succeed in (1) pissing off everyone behind them (road rage) and (2) creating a safety hazard and potentially getting rear-ended.

***** guys, even a "driving improvement" course I took years ago SAID OUTRIGHT, "drive ambient traffic speed and minimize lane changes to maximize your chances of survival, regardless of what the speed limit sign says". This is from a STATE-SANCTIONED course run by Green Cross. Even they have this stuff figured out.

How is the law dangerous and unjust?

See above. Compliance creates an unsafe situation in most cases. Until speed limits are imposed that people en masse are actually likely to obey, it's just trying to "force" a number onto the public that will never stick, people won't obey and won't respect. Make the number more reasonable.

People won't b*tch about someone else getting busted for 5-10 over the limit if the limit weren't so retardedly artificially low in the first place - in such a case, 5-10 mph over would actually represent a real "danger" and the oft-cited "safety" rationale for busting speeders would have some merit to it. As the situation is now, it doesn't.

Refer to Jeff's above post and you should understand.

Sorry, compliance does not create the unsafe situation. NON-compliance creates the unsafe situation. As i said before, we can't just switch blame to those who comply just because they are in the minority.

Jeff,

I could care less what number you were in line. Were you speeding? If so then you are guilty?

See, its easy!

Saw it happen a few weeks ago - Two identical cars come to a light - the one of the left came blowing past me a few minutes before - How do I know? - it was a diesel and I own one myself so I have a bad habit looking for them.

The one on the right was a 1.8T - Cop comes in behind them - I can tell he doesn't know which was actually speeding as he was looking back and forth between them.

Light turns green the diesel pulls away real slow and the 1.8T took off - Now he did nothing wrong (didn't exceed the speedlimit, squawl tires or anything) but guess who got the ticket.............


Did you guess the 1.8T? If you did you won the prize

In a perfect world on those that break the law are accused and found guilty.......... Do you believe this is a perfect world

If you can't afford a ticket - you can't afford to speed.

And as I have said in the numerous other bea-atch session postings about cop's and speeding and searching and all the other stuff, some of you guy's sure spend an awful lot of time thinking about getting stopped for some reason.

Todd :rolleyes:

Yes, I was doing probably 47 in the 40 zone. Yes, it's against the law and yes, if I'd been busted I'd probably just pay it. That doesn't make the whole process any less bull***** than I'm saying it is. It's 100% about revenue. It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with safety. This is a convenient rationalization used to justify the extortion, since anyone who goes on record as being against such laws/enforcement/policies can automatically be painted as "anti-public safety", which of course is nonsense.

The system is a load of B.S. That's all I'm saying.

If you are a victim of an extortion scheme this simple i'd think twice about admitting it.

We're ALL victims of it.

I'm glad we both agree that lying down and "taking it" is inappropriate and indicative of stupidity. I'll look for you in the ranks of those of us carrying the pitchforks and torches when we march on City Hall later this afternoon. :)

>The motivation for the aggressive enforcement of speed laws is clearly economic

Agreed, but even that part I don't mind -too- much, we play the game and now and then we get caught... What really gets me is that it is perfectly legal for the insurance companies to kick you while you are down and raise your rates based on the ticket!

Why on earth they have a legal right to check speeding tickets on your driving record is beyond me... It's a racket and none of their business... Then, with the Geicos of the world using their profits to buy the cops some fresh radar guns, you got yourself a perpetuating money pile there...

I can see why an insurance company should know about some things that increase their risk: DUIs, sure, # of accidents, makes sense, ticket for reckless driving, maybe.... but "benign" speeding tickets such as the one described in that thread are not correlated to your risk... I've had countless tickets over 20y of driving and never had or caused an accident. I don't much like the "money generating" speed traps, but I'm even more pissed off at the insurance companies and I cannot believe that it's even legal ! Some lobby they must have !!!

If you stick to the speed limit then no worries. A true B.S. tax scheme is when you get popped for a time violation in a 2 hr zone when you've only been there 15 minutes. That's $80 for the ticket and $4.79 for the carne asada burrito and coke. DOH!

Unfortunately, there is some correlation with traffic tickets and accidents, (though credit rating has a higher correlation), and speeding is pretty much the ONLY thing cops write tickets for.

I bet you speed. I bet your buddies let you off when you flash your badge.

Yes, we do. We're not part of the club; as a matter of fact, we are part of a targeted group. Maybe we would not think about it as much if we were on the other side of the fence, with a free pass like you have.

I don't think any of us object to reasonable speed enforcement. A "general speed" law, like many western states had on the books years ago, provides for reasonable speed enforcement. If the whole of the body of traffic is moving at a given speed, it makes no sense to pick one out of the herd and cite them. If a lone vehicle is exceeding the limit by 10-15 on a wide open stretch of road, with good visibility, in good weather, there is no reason to pull that vehicle over and cite the driver for speeding.

Many European countries still enforce speed in this general manner. They trust their citizens, on the whole, to be prudent in their driving decisions. While they punish the ones that clearly are not, they have a lot more respect for, and grant a great deal more leeway to, those that are. There is a vast difference between enforcing traffic law in that manner and our thinly veiled revenue-based approach.

If it was truly about public safety, wouldn't you agree with me the police would be more affective if they got out from behind the bushes and overpasses and drove around?

Instead of everyone slowing down for that little speed trap, they would be forced to drive at the limit.

Of course, this would require the officer to drive at the speed limit, something I rarely see.

we live to pay taxes. everything we do is taxed. HA HA

This is what happens when you do the speed limit.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5366552067462745475&q=meditation+speed

THIS SHOWS HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW ABOUT EUROPEAN TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT, IN MOST EU COUNTRIES THE FINE IS BASED ON A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR YEARLY INCOME, TRY THAT ON FOR SIZE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A REVENUE BASED APPROACH.

TODD SmileWavy

Opp's sorry about the cap's did not even notice till too late.