GM...sad excuses. How do I get into Lutz's office to get that job?

[MotoSook]

All the manufacturers might as well give up now. GM can't do it, so it must be impossible!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"GM puts brake on rear-drive vehicles"


Published April 10, 2007
Jim Mateja


General Motors has put a hold on future rear-wheel-drive vehicles.

"We've pushed the pause button. It's no longer full speed ahead," Vice Chairman Bob Lutz revealed in an interview.

Two of the most important RWD cars in the works are the Chevy Camaro sports coupe due back late in 2008 and the full-size, RWD replacement for the Chevy Impala sedan for 2009. Both are expected to be huge sellers and contribute major profits to a GM till burdened with IOUs the last few years.

"It's too late to stop Camaro, but anything after that is questionable or on the bubble," said Lutz, noting that also means Camaro derivatives -- along with a big Impala sedan, "if we call it Impala."

The RWD cars, you see, would be larger and heavier than front-wheel-drive cars or are high-performance models.

So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.

That 30 percent bogey arises from a proposal by the Bush administration to raise corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards by 4 percent a year so cars would have to average 34 m.p.g. by 2017, up from 27.5 m.p.g. today. On top of that, the Supreme Court ruled last week that the Environmental Protection Agency can regulate carbon dioxide expelled by cars, a gas that contributes to global warming. The EPA doesn't do so now.

"We'll decide on our rear-drive cars when the government decides on CO(-2) levels and CAFE regulations," Lutz said, adding that limiting CO(-2) would increase mileage, too.

"Carbon dioxide is a natural byproduct of burning gas and directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned. If we legislate CO(-2) from cars, why not legislate we take one less breath per minute since humans release capricious amounts of CO(-2) each time they exhale?" offered a testy Lutz.

Lutz also points out that higher mileage will come at a price, with the proposal to raise CAFE certain to increase costs by as much as $5,000, which will be added to a car's sticker, an amount most consumers won't be willing to pay. There are no hard numbers for how much CAFE compliance adds to the sticker now.

"Rather than buy new, people would hang onto their old cars. We could eat the $5,000, but that would put us out of business."

Besides, those who see cars as more than just an appliance are eager for the new RWD offerings.

Among other cars affected are a high-performance midsize Pontiac, a replacement for the full-size Buick Lucerne sedan, a compact smaller than the current CTS at Cadillac and possible 300-horsepower versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters.

"This is very disappointing," noted Erich Merkle, director of forecasting for IRN Inc., in Grand Rapids, Mich. Most of the cars coming are necessary to GM's turnaround as showroom magnets.

"What the public buys makes CAFE work, not what the industry builds," Merkle added. "To improve mileage you change demand, not supply, by raising gas prices through taxes. But no politician is going to do that so they throw the responsibility on the back of the industry."

Lutz also objects to the talk that carmakers can easily raise mileage with a very low investment.

"Academics assure us that for $200 we can get 30 percent better mileage. If anyone can figure out how to do that for $200 -- or even for $1,000 -- I want them in my office today. Show me how to do it and we'll adopt it," he said. "If I could increase mileage by 30 percent for $200, why wouldn't I? What's my motivation not to when a gas-electric hybrid gets 27 percent better mileage and I hope someday to get the cost down to $9,000?"

Others insist that carmakers simply have to sell more small cars, such as the trio of 1-liter concepts that promise 40 m.p.g.-plus that GM unveiled at the New York Auto Show.

"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said, explaining that foreign-made cars would count toward the automaker's import fleet, and its domestic fleet is where GM needs help.

[coldstart]

The RWD cars, you see, would be larger and heavier than front-wheel-drive cars or are high-performance models.

So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.

It's easy to get better fuel economy in a RWD. They just need to think outside the box and put the engine in the back!!!

[legion]

Originally posted by coldstart
It's easy to get better fuel economy in a RWD. They just need to think outside the box and put the engine in the back!!!

Right.

Ralph Nader is probably salivating at the idea.

[red-beard]

How do you get 34 MPG with Ethanol? Or will there be a BTU content correction for E85?

[Rick Lee]

People like Ralph Nader should be forced to get real jobs.

[Dantilla]

It's possible that there will be dark days ahead for enthusiasts.

But it happened before in the '70's. Muscle cars disappeared, and were replaced with whimpy, low powered cars with stickers. Mustang II anyone?

If so, it will most likely be cyclical again. It's a pretty good time right now. Porsche's base models now have more horsepower than the original 911 turbo, a car that was seen as unworldly fast when it arrived.

Chevrolet's base Corvette has 400 horsepower, and yet gets 30 mpg on the highway.

Modern technology has made huge gains in both performance and emmissions.

Car manufacturers may be stifled for a while, back to putting out bland products. But technology will catch up again, and I figure I'll keep driving used cars that I like until then.

[MotoSook]

I perused an article this morning, and it seems all the "chicken littles" out there who are screaming the earth is going to blow up or melt due to "global warming" have forced the Supreme Court to weigh in on the matter creating a chain reaction. Now GM and Detroit will have more to cry about while others are pointing fingers...including the "chicken littles" that created the mess.

Really, while GM is selling and primarily marketing large, heavy gas guzzling trucks and SUV's that see fuel consumption in the single digits, how on earth can they average a respectable MPG number?

Lutz is complaining that they "can't build small cars here at a profit." Really? How the heck does Honda, BMW, Toyota, etc profit from cars and small trucks built in the US?

There is a corporate intellectual blood clot in the management (from the design department to the engineering department to the human resource department on up to guys like Lutz) of the Detroit companies, couple that with the strangle hold the UAW has on them...and you have a major mess.

[thrown_hammer]

Souk,
Why you getting’ all upset about a company that only makes rental cars anyway? You travel a lot?

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by thrown_hammer
Souk,
Why you getting’ all upset about a company that only makes rental cars anyway? You travel a lot?

Ha ha! So true.

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by Souk
"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said,

I don't buy that.

I really believe that if GM decided they wanted to build the world's best small car, they could. But they just don't want to.

It's too bad too, I think GM is making far better cars than they did 10 years ago. My nanny's 1996 was an embarrassing piece of junk, right off the showroom floor. It screamed "Walmart", both in the fit and finish and the way it drove.

Skip ahead 10 years and get in a Cobalt. I rented one for work a few weeks ago. Vastly superior interior, and a decent car to drive. I try to guage cars by how they drive when they are 5-6 years old; it will be interesting to see how they hold up.

That's the problem; Even if their new cars are GREAT, GM has been hawking junk in the car market for ages... and it takes a LONG time to rebuild a reputation.

[MotoSook]

Well, I do travel, and when I get in a rental car...it's about as satisfying as sitting on a skateboard being towed by a kid on a bike.

I not upset at all. I'm not even in the industry, but the US auto industry affects all of us. I just find it silly that they can't find a way to profit and then go on crying about it... Maybe in a couple of years, GM and Ford will go crying to Congress for help....and we will all feel it in our tax contribution to the US treasury. I wasn't paying taxes in the 80's, but I sure as hell would have wanted a return on the dollars that went toward bailing out Chrysler.

[RKC]

Um.....

I think this sounds like a political maneuver to influence future CAFE numbers and not a real statement of fact....

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by RKC
Um.....

I think this sounds like a political maneuver to influence future CAFE numbers and not a real statement of fact....

+1

[MotoSook]

Originally posted by RKC
Um.....

I think this sounds like a political maneuver to influence future CAFE numbers and not a real statement of fact....

I would agree with that, but the fact is GM is not profitable and headed for worst.

The profit in Q4 of 2006 was just paper magic...not what I would call actual profit:

[from the AP]
DETROIT - General Motors Corp. reported a net profit on Wednesday of $950 million for the fourth quarter of 2006 due to cost cuts, higher automotive revenues and a gain on the sale of its finance division.

It was the automaker’s first profit since the first quarter of 2006 and a turnaround from a $6.6 billion loss in the same period one year ago.

The world’s biggest automaker, which is in the midst of a massive overhaul that includes shedding thousands of jobs and closing plants to become more competitive with Asian automakers like Toyota Motor Corp., wound up with a loss of $2 billion for all of 2006 compared with a restated loss of $10.4 billion in 2005.

[RKC]

I agree GM is in some trouble. And I wish I had more faith in the U.S. Auto Industry. I would love to see everything coming out of Detroit be world-class. But I don't see any compelling reasons why they should escape the realities that have decimated other U.S. heavy industries.

Therefore, I fear that Detroit is headed the way of Big Steel - that it is just a matter of time until the collapse, and then a matter of still more time until the rebirth of the Detroit auto industry on some smaller scale - like a steel "mini mill."

Maybe in 20 years they'll be producing only sports cars like Corvettes and Mustangs and Camaros - tiny, specialized companies like an American version of Porsche! - and all the bread and butter cars will be made in Japan and China and India.

Wish this wasn't coming - but I fear that it is....

[kach22i]

Originally posted by coldstart
It's easy to get better fuel economy in a RWD. They just need to think outside the box and put the engine in the back!!!

Do you think there is a chance of this?

http://members.aol.com/redbat01/web/

Back in the 1930s, rear engine cars were considered the wave of the future. Great automotive engineers like Hans Ledwinka and Ferdinand Porsche believed that, by putting the power-train in back of the rear axle, cars could be made lower, lighter, cooler, safer, roomier, cheaper, more aerodynamic, better riding and better handling.

Yes, I'm a dreamer.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Dantilla


Chevrolet's base Corvette has 400 horsepower, and yet gets 30 mpg on the highway.

Modern technology has made huge gains in both performance and emmissions.

Yes, but it costs a lot more and produces less of a profit than GM can sustain. And, it's roughly a 3000 lb. car. Not gonna happen with a full size sedan.

Lutz is a talented man, but he took the wrong job. GM needs more cowbell, that's for sure. Not sure how they're gonna get there. Souk, what's the answer?

[legion]

My new, 5000 lb. Silverado with a 5.3L V8 and 320 hp gets 22 mpg, highway.

[MotoSook]

Originally posted by RKC
I agree GM is in some trouble. And I wish I had more faith in the U.S. Auto Industry. I would love to see everything coming out of Detroit be world-class. But I don't see any compelling reasons why they should escape the realities that have decimated other U.S. heavy industries.

Therefore, I fear that Detroit is headed the way of Big Steel - that it is just a matter of time until the collapse, and then a matter of still more time until the rebirth of the Detroit auto industry on some smaller scale - like a steel "mini mill."

Maybe in 20 years they'll be producing only sports cars like Corvettes and Mustangs and Camaros - tiny, specialized companies like an American version of Porsche! - and all the bread and butter cars will be made in Japan and China and India.

Wish this wasn't coming - but I fear that it is....

We have all felt the affects of Big Steel's collapse. I willl guess that in my industry that has cost us millions in the last 6 months.

If anyone out there thinks the Detroit auto industry only affects Detroit, think again....

..I hope you're wrong, RKC. I also hope Detroit auto can turn it around without a goverment bailout!

[MotoSook]

Originally posted by milt
Souk, what's the answer?

Give me five years and a small fraction of what GM lost in the last 3 years, and I'll piss off or fire enough people to turn the company around.