Two cops beat up by Homeowner.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
I'm also extremely nice and polite to cops. But I don't know that I could control myself if I saw my wife in cuffs on my own property and illegally at that.

Nope. At that point they are a couple of young punks beating on an old lady. Not very proficiently, apparently. I probably would have lost it and done a lot more damage. My wife is my wife... anyone that beats on her answers to me. I might even bring a couple of friends along; Mr.'s Smith and...

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
I'm also extremely nice and polite to cops. But I don't know that I could control myself if I saw my wife in cuffs on my own property and illegally at that.

I should have added "unless I put those cuffs on her".

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
I should have added "unless I put those cuffs on her".

In that case, I might have a hard time controling myself as well... little different outcome, though...

[Tobra]

Originally posted by coldstart
I am also a yes sir/no sir guy with the police but IMHO they regularly abuse their authority. I have seen people beat up for no reason whatsoever, both in the big city and in smaller towns. It does happens-- that's why I make sure not to give them any excuse.

I myself got a Nevada State Trooper a formal reprimand and a month unpaid leave for misbehaving. I was yes sir no sir the entire time and he was out of control in front of several witnesses. Did not assault me, but he had me standing out in the snow in short sleeves a long time after I asked if I could have my jacket, among other things

[MMARSH]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
Homeowners NEVER need identify themselves to police on their own property and often don't have to do so while walking down the street.

Be very careful with that broad of a statement.

If a cop ends up at your house because of an alarm call or a call from a neighbor who says they saw someone in your backyard. Then how do I know who you are and if it really is your property. Until I know who you are, your a potential criminal. A refusal to identify yourself would do nothing but ensure you a seat in the back of my radio car. Also, keep in mind that at that time, I don't have to tell you why I'm there.

[Rick Lee]

It's a broad statement, but it's true in most states. And unless a cop has an arrest or search warrant, it doesn't matter why he's on someone's property. The homeowner does not have to identify themselves. I would probably always do it. But some states have ruled that giving one's name, especially if wanted by police, can constitute self-incrimination. And the problem that most people open themselves up to when a cop knocks on the door is either inviting him in or standing the doorway while chatting. If the door is open, anything within the cop's view is fair game. To really give the cop no chance, the homeowner should step outside to the front porch and close the front door behind him. That puts anything inside the house outside the homeowner's grabbable area and the cop's plain view. And that makes anything is the house not constitute a danger to the cop.

[nostatic]

I'm in the "yes, sir, no sir" camp. I used this to great effect during the lost years. Some of my friends would get belligerent and it always had the same outcome. My reasoning is that when being pulled over or questioned, the cop is essentially god...so I better show some respect. I can always argue my point after the fact...with all of my bodily parts intact. Sure, I can refuse to give my name, but I know where that will get me (cuffed in the back of the car).

This incident smells a little odd though...

[Rick Lee]

You can't refuse to give your name if you're pulled over and you're the driver. You have to show your license too. On foot it's a different ballgame. I would never advocate being belligerent. But people need to know they don't have to consent to a whole lot when police ask for it. If the cops didn't need consent, they probably wouldn't ask in the first place.

[svandamme]

the guy did get sentenced, even if it was time allready served and court costs... he did get sentenced, so he still lost the case...

it's like pleading guilty for a misdemeanor so you don't stand the 10% risk of loosing a felony case, even if you didn't do it...

I expected much more outrage from the freedom folks on this board...

[David]

Do any of you have your license and insurance in hand when a cop comes to your car window after pulling you over? I've heard you shouldn't, but I usually do. I know they're going to ask for it so why not have it ready? Half the time the cop just tells me to slow down.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
...I find it hard to believe that folks who get beat, do not instigate it by resisting arrest or being confrontational....
.

Once you do see a grave injustice like this, it changes how you view things. I take it you've never been to NOLA (and I'm talking pre-Katrina)...

[MMARSH]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
It's a broad statement, but it's true in most states. And unless a cop has an arrest or search warrant, it doesn't matter why he's on someone's property.

Yes it does matter. If I'm there because of a possible crime in progress it would be in your best interest to identify yourself. Do you have to no. You also don't have to identify yourself in a traffic stop. You don't have to do anything. My point is, the end result will be the same. You are going to end up in the back of a police car and maybe at the police station getting fingerprinted. Your statement that you never have to identify yourself when on your own property could potentially cause someone alot of grief.

[MMARSH]

Originally posted by 125shifter
Do any of you have your license and insurance in hand when a cop comes to your car window after pulling you over? I've heard you shouldn't, but I usually do. I know they're going to ask for it so why not have it ready? Half the time the cop just tells me to slow down.

I wouldn't dig aroung for your stuff right after getting pulled over. Wait until the police officer askes for it then get it. I've seen people stuff guns or dope under thier seats. All that moving around inside the car does is make us nervous. But like I just told Rick. You don't have to wait but it's probably in your best interest.

[Rick Lee]

Michael, I didn't say it's never legitimate for a cop to be on private property without a warrant. And I don't think a homeowner would often be uncooperative with a cop investigating a crime on his property, especially a crime against said homeowner. But in the Coffins' case, they were probably expecting to be served with papers, so they did not plan on having a voluntary contact with the police on their own property. And what the cops did after facing an uncooperative, albeit totally lawful, response by the homeowner was egregiously illegal. I know I wouldn't want to get served. Around here the counties use contractors to serve papers and the rule is that they have to touch you with the papers, which I think is begging for trouble. If a stranger tries to hand me something and I don't put my hand out and then they try to touch my chest with it, I'd probably be moved to retaliate against what would be called assault in most places.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by MMARSH
I wouldn't dig aroung for your stuff right after getting pulled over. Wait until the police officer askes for it then get it. I've seen people stuff guns or dope under thier seats. All that moving around inside the car does is make us nervous. But like I just told Rick. You don't have to wait but it's probably in your best interest.

You heard it from "The Man" , but that's why I no longer have the license, etc. in hand. I respect the job most LEOs do, so if at night, I'll turn on my car/van's inside lights (so they can clearly see me), and if my driver's window is down, I'll either leave both hands on the steering wheel, or rest my hands on the door in plain vew until the LEO is 'comfortable' with who he/she is approaching.

[Rick Lee]

Since I keep my registration in my wallet, it's pretty easy for me to have it and my license and CCW out in seconds. And around here, the cops always run your plates before approaching and so they see in their computer that I have a CCW, which means I'm probably not a criminal. Then I put my hands on the steering wheel and wait for them to approach. Never been asked to see the gun I was carrying or asked if I had anything in the car that "they should know about".

[pwd72s]

Traffic stops? Driving a Ford Ranger with gray hair usually eliminates those. This combo is invisible to traffic cops. Of course, I run a V-1 to help me know where they are... Once I had a sheriff come to our house late at night. I'm glad he did. A drunk driver being tailed by this deputy had pulled into our driveway, tried to make it appear that our home was his home. The drunk was lucky in a way. If he'd tried to take it a step further & come in? He could have been shot by a homeowner.

[David]

Originally posted by MMARSH
I wouldn't dig aroung for your stuff right after getting pulled over. Wait until the police officer askes for it then get it. I've seen people stuff guns or dope under thier seats. All that moving around inside the car does is make us nervous. But like I just told Rick. You don't have to wait but it's probably in your best interest.

I had to brake hard to avoid hitting a cop one day. When I did, my cassette case which was under the seat slid out so pushed it back. The cop pulled up behind me pulled me over. He told me to get of the car and jumped into the driver's seat without asking and started digging around under the seat. He found the cassette case and asked if that's what I pushing under the seat and did I have any weapons. I said yes to the case and no to the weapons. Before I knew it, he was gone?!?!? It was the strangest thing I've ever seen a cop do. What was even weirder is he didn't notice or didn't care that I was 3 sheets to the wind at 4:00 in the afternoon from an after final exams bar visit.