Virginia Tech Killings

[boxercup]

20 killed by a gunman at Virginia Tech.

What is going on....

This is sad! We employ a graduate of VT.


BLACKSBURG, Va. - Gunfire erupted in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 22 people, the police chief said. The gunman was killed.

[MarkR11S]

Wasn't there some banter on this forum recently about not needing police (ninjas) with high powered weapns?

Seriously, I hope they caught or catch those responsible.

[Bob Hancock]

Yes...disturbing indeed.
VaTech, Class of '68.

[repoe3]

CCW for students.

repoe3

[Flatbutt1]

Originally posted by repoe3
CCW for students.

repoe3

CCW for ALL...qualified by training

[bitingmosaurus]

As of 1055 hrs, 32 confirmed dead.

[Mr. Deltoid]

This is a prime example and a good case for trained and armed teachers and pilots.Imagine if they confiscated arms from decent law abiding citizens, the carnage that would happen.Talk about open season.The nuts and thugs seem to have little or no fear, even with armed citizens.

[varmint]

there was a shooting at a lawschool in west virginia a few years back. similar situation, some guy goes amok, and wanders the halls killing people. but one of the students was a reservist. he ran out to the car and retrieved his gun. stopped the shooter cold.

found a link to the old story.

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/NROMultipleVicShootings305.html

[markjenn]

Originally posted by Mr. Deltoid
This is a prime example and a good case for trained and armed teachers and pilots.Imagine if they confiscated arms from decent law abiding citizens, the carnage that would happen.Talk about open season.The nuts and thugs seem to have little or no fear, even with armed citizens.

An extremely simpleton view of the problem. Some of this might be necessary in the short term, but you've got to address the root causes of why people do things like this, not proliferate even more arms. The US is by far the most heavily armed society in the world, yet rather than this being a deterent, we have the highest levels of violence.

- Mark

[ErricZ]

Maybe because we've taken away the grunt of law? People see murderers get away with a couple of years whereas pot possessors are going away for 20+ years. Cops are more worried about getting sued than with getting the perp and aren't pulling their weapons as a result.

I don't see why we all shouldn't be given an opportunity to legally own a weapon, if one is mentally and physically fit enough.

[Mr. Deltoid]

Simpleton?Well actually it is.The simple fact is that thugs will obtain firearms regardless of state or federal laws.Add helpless citizens to the mix, like I said before, OPEN SEASON.Like ErricZ said above, we are flooding our prison systems with nonviolent drug offenders. With ridiculous sentences for drug offenders, we have no other choice but to let some of the real nasty offenders free with early release programs.Insanity.

[Fenring]

Originally posted by ErricZ
Maybe because we've taken away the grunt of law? People see murderers get away with a couple of years whereas pot possessors are going away for 20+ years. Cops are more worried about getting sued than with getting the perp and aren't pulling their weapons as a result.

I don't see why we all shouldn't be given an opportunity to legally own a weapon, if one is mentally and physically fit enough.

There is noone mentally fit enough. Would you give children guns so they could defend themselves from other children with guns? Grownups aren't really more responsible or trustworthy with guns then children, maybe even less by my account of these things.

But keep your guns if they make you feel safe. It's this fear and paranoia that's driving these killings in the first place and there's no therapy for that. I don't see crime rates in USA getting low by simple pro or con guns policy. Someone said: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people.". So by that reasoning, no person with a weapon should be trusted.

And if someone is about to say: "then we should also bann cutlery including forks and spoons", let me just point out that any cold weapon is a far cry from any firearm. It's just making killing to easy and convenient.

[Fenring]

Originally posted by varmint
there was a shooting at a lawschool in west virginia a few years back. similar situation, some guy goes amok, and wanders the halls killing people. but one of the students was a reservist. he ran out to the car and retrieved his gun. stopped the shooter cold.

found a link to the old story.

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/NROMultipleVicShootings305.html

*bull**** mode on* Oh yeah, nice save. *off*
Can anyone provide some statistical data that would show how often does something like this really happend compared to the actual crimerate?

[JonyRR]

'An extremely simpleton view of the problem. Some of this might be necessary in the short term, but you've got to address the root causes of why people do things like this, not proliferate even more arms. The US is by far the most heavily armed society in the world, yet rather than this being a deterent, we have the highest levels of violence.'

blah, blah, blah.
that's got to be the most tripe-containing drivel I've heard from you, Mark.
I'm on the side of the Deltiod on this one.

If 5 students would have gotten up and returned fire, this would have been over in 1/2 a second.
If there would have been a couple of ex-marine gunney types there with their issue slabsides, this wouldn't have happened.

and mark11s, the cops show up WELL AFTER the event. as almost always, because they respond AFTER it goes down.
It's up to the CITIZENRY to deal with this as the citizenry is on the spot.
An Israeli friend of mine says it well...in Israel, this doesn't ahppen because the bad guy would never make it 50 feet against us.

[Fenring]

And I apologize for the aggressive replies, but whenever I hear news like the one today, it really pisses me off even if it's all the way across the Atlantic. It reminds me of the ugly side of humanity.

[Fenring]

Originally posted by JonyRR

An Israeli friend of mine says it well...in Israel, this doesn't ahppen because the bad guy would never make it 50 feet against us.

It doesn't happend because people there have enough violence without resorting to killing each other for whatever reason.

Sometimes I have a feeling that people in USA are just bored to death. Sometimes literally.

[micko77]

Originally posted by Fenring
There is noone mentally fit enough. Would you give children guns so they could defend themselves from other children with guns? Grownups aren't really more responsible or trustworthy with guns then children, maybe even less by my account of these things.

But keep your guns if they make you feel safe. It's this fear and paranoia that's driving these killings in the first place and there's no therapy for that. I don't see crime rates in USA getting low by simple pro or con guns policy. Someone said: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people.". So by that reasoning, no person with a weapon should be trusted.

And if someone is about to say: "then we should also bann cutlery including forks and spoons", let me just point out that any cold weapon is a far cry from any firearm. It's just making killing to easy and convenient.

Killing is never easy or convenient. Only someone who's never done it or considered it would make such an ignorant claim. Carrying is a last resort to defending one's family, household, self...at least to those of us who carry. I hope I never, ever have to draw my weapon...but I won't be the one dead out of ignorance of true reality. Truth is there are people willing to kill for much less than me...in my time in the military these truths became apparent to me out of THEIR volition. The men that wrote our constitution understood this 200 years ago...and they say we are an advanced society?

[AndrewA]

Originally posted by markjenn
An extremely simpleton view of the problem. Some of this might be necessary in the short term, but you've got to address the root causes of why people do things like this, not proliferate even more arms. The US is by far the most heavily armed society in the world, yet rather than this being a deterent, we have the highest levels of violence.

- Mark

+1

[Dbltailexit]

very sad

Would anyone disagree that any "shooter" should be killed as soon as possible, and i do mean without trial, hearing or reading what his upbringing was like, and preferably onsite?

I am guessing two copycat episodes within the next 6 months,

[Fenring]

Originally posted by micko77
Killing is never easy or convenient. Only someone who's never done it or considered it would make such an ignorant claim. Carrying is a last resort to defending one's family, household, self...at least to those of us who carry. I hope I never, ever have to draw my weapon...but I won't be the one dead out of ignorance of true reality. Truth is there are people willing to kill for much less than me...in my time in the military these truths became apparent to me out of THEIR volition. The men that wrote our constitution understood this 200 years ago...and they say we are an advanced society?

Honestly, I cannot trust anyone carrying a firearm (or a weapon), regardless of how benevolent they claim to be. I wouldn't trust myself to own one, so naturally I couldn't trust anyone else with it too.

True, I never killed anyone, but I consider that a plus. I served some time in the military, and I can vouch that people often treat guns like toys, especially when they get hold of the live ammo. Good as they are for selfdefense purposes, they are rarely ever used for it.

I respect that it is the part of the American tradition and you should have right to carry.

In my opinion it is naive to think that any person is reliable enough. All people are just machines in our heads as well as in our bodies, sofisticated as we may be, we can still break and snap. I have zero doubt about that.