I'm not thinking clearly on this issue

Flatbutt1 · 04-23-2007, 07:02 PM

Would you guys mind pitching in here a bit?

My house was built in 1945, by 1945 standards. The front used to be a porch but was closed in long before I bought. But no foundation was laid for it. There has never been much of a load on it but it does seem to be rotting out.

So I am having it checked but to fix it could be enormously expensive. More than I bought the house for in fact. I'm 55 out of debt, but close enough to retirement to not want to incur anymore mortgage type debt.

Selling the house as is , is out of the question. Leaving it be till I die is very risky. It might not last. Spending that kind of cash is REALLY going to hurt my retiremment.

What would you do?

TIA, *sigh*

masraum · 04-23-2007, 07:04 PM

How big is the "Front" that's rotting? Is it just an enclosed front porch or is it a room or a couple of rooms?

Hugh R · 04-23-2007, 07:25 PM

Just a wild stab. When I was a consultant, I did some industrial hygiene exposure monitoring on this company that injected Toluene Diisocyanate foam into the freeways of Los Angeles to raise the freeway where it had settled after the Northidge Earthquake. They'd drill holes in the concrete and inject foam to slowly raise it so that the joint between the freeway and an bridge didn't have a big hump in it. Won't help the rotting problem, but might help with a settling into the ground issue. What about this with a combination of cinder block pillars? Hope this helps.

Joeaksa · 04-23-2007, 07:26 PM

Have you gotten anyone underneath to look at what you are concerned about? Until you do that, its all a large question mark. Get them to take some good photos so you have a better idea what is going on underneath.

Believe that you are seeing the world from a chair if memory serves me correctly? Any chance that there is any state or federal programs that would help you with the rebuilding of the front as its needed to get out of the house?

Steve Carlton · 04-23-2007, 07:42 PM

It seems like there are super expensive ways to fix foundation issues and much cheaper alternatives. Perhaps you got quoted really high? Do you have any friends in the construction business?

One thought would be to get a reverse mortgage. No payments for the rest of your life. Your heir(s) will have to pay it off, but the house will be worth more to offset it to some extent.

jorian · 04-23-2007, 08:31 PM

Fix it. The longer you wait the more expensive it will be. Spend in relation to your anticipated length of stay. Moving soon - spend a little. Moving in 10+ years fix it properly. A fix like this will always be repaid on sale no matter what route you go. Cheap out and the market will adjust the price down. Fix to code and you will at a minimum recoup your costs. Rotten wood/moisture is bad for your health as well.

competentone · 04-23-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flatbutt1
There has never been much of a load on it but it does seem to be rotting out.

So I am having it checked but to fix it could be enormously expensive.

What would you do?

Brace it up.

Control the rot by treating it with Bora-Care

M.D. Holloway · 04-23-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugh R
...injected Toluene Diisocyanate foam into ....

Rigid Polyurethane Foam (TDI rxd with long chain alcohol) - The pressure created is huge but I would think conventional building jacks would be easier.

dad911 · 04-24-2007, 06:04 AM

Hard to diagnose without some more pictures. It shouldn't be that expensive to add 3-4 brick/masonry piers on a proper 3' frost footing.

However, you should fix it, rot repair gets exponentially more expensive as time passes.

PM me if you are in Hunterdon County, and I will take a look.

notfarnow · 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flatbutt1
The front used to be a porch but was closed in long before I bought. But no foundation was laid for it. There has never been much of a load on it but it does seem to be rotting out.

To claify, is the "porch" (now part of the house) simply sitting on earth? Is that what's rotting? How much access is there to get jacks underneath?

A lot depends on how rotted it is... the worse it gets, the harder it will be to lift & rebuild.

There may not be a need to put it on a full foundation. Concrete piers with an I beam or laminated beam could do the trick.

Pics would be helpful

The Gaijin · 04-24-2007, 06:36 AM

Look into doing the work yourself. I amazed who can do what when they put their mind (and back) to it..

Dantilla · 04-24-2007, 06:38 AM

If you were closer to me, I'd recommend a couple guys I know that do stuff like this. Difficult to say without pictures, or actually looking underneath, but these guys would probably be happy to fix something like this pretty inexpensively.

MRM · 04-24-2007, 09:09 AM

It probably is rotting out because it was originally put directly on the ground, maybe on a few stones or cement blocks. It's probably pretty bad under there. To do it right would be very expensive.

But you almost certainly can brace it up cheaply and not have any problems for another 65 years. Is there a crawl space? Can you get a couple of treated cross members under there and jack it up until the floor is level and solid?

tabs · 04-24-2007, 09:22 AM

Was the orginal work Permitted, and if U try and sell U have to disclose.

Without a Permit, you might as well tear the whole thing down, as it has NO Value on resale.

If you don't disclose the problem when U sell the buyer can come back and SUE. That I am sure wouldn't make U a happy camper, as U could lose the whole current value of the house.

Best course is to take a home equity loan and repair with Permits if necessary. That will at least satisify your legal requirements and retain the current market value of the home.

72doug2,2S · 72doug2,2S's Garage

I always heard POR-15 was good on a "Porch."

OK. Do you really want a porch? What about losing it for nicely done steps? Do you have a picture to share?

notfarnow · 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Was the orginal work Permitted, and if U try and sell U have to disclose.

Without a Permit, you might as well tear the whole thing down, as it has NO Value on resale.

If you don't disclose the problem when U sell the buyer can come back and SUE. That I am sure wouldn't make U a happy camper, as U could lose the whole current value of the house.

Best course is to take a home equity loan and repair with Permits if necessary. That will at least satisify your legal requirements and retain the current market value of the home.

I think you're applying new home logic to an old house.

Compromises are made with old homes. If every old home had to be brought up to current code in order to be sold, there wouldn't be any on the market.

Furthermore, he could do the work and fully disclose what was done. Anyone buying a home built in 1945 should know that they have to look carefully. My older home came with all kinds of "make do" solutions that were disclosed, and some that weren't. Such is life.

FWIW, about 12' of my sunporch extends past the foundation and sits on concrete piers. I don't think they are dug below the frost line, so I'll be setting new ones in the next couple of years... no biggie (and no permit).

I think your setup is different, by the sounds of it your porch is sitting right on earth.

Sounds like the rear "addition" at a friend's cottage. 2x10 pressure treated frame was sitting right on the ground, and started to rot badly after ~15 yrs. He dug underneath, ran a beam across the width that sits on concrete pads. Has to "adjust" it every couple of years, but now it's off the ground and gets enough air movement to prevent rot.
Maybe not the perfect solution, but for him it was that compromise vs tear it off altogether.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugh R
Just a wild stab. When I was a consultant, I did some industrial hygiene exposure monitoring on this company that injected Toluene Diisocyanate foam into the freeways of Los Angeles to raise the freeway where it had settled after the Northidge Earthquake. They'd drill holes in the concrete and inject foam to slowly raise it so that the joint between the freeway and an bridge didn't have a big hump in it.

Not to hijack but....can this material be used by a DYIer. If so I'll start a new thread with my question.

Hugh R · 04-24-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RickM
Not to hijack but....can this material be used by a DYIer. If so I'll start a new thread with my question.

Yes, you need supplied air however, but in reality, the exposure is very low. The vapor pressure is nil, but the worker exposure limit is extremely low. In an open area it hard to get an over exposure, especially when its injected underground.

Flatbutt1 · 04-24-2007, 01:43 PM

Thanks guys, as always you never disappoint. It is a linear length of foundation about 60 feet. It was laid right down on the ground and has been good all this time, but it is getting old. I will not do this myself as I cannot and so it would be done by a pro under a proper permit. BUT since the house is so old and the property it sits on is 4X the value of the house, I've beentold that any buyer would probably raze the house and start new.

So the toss of the dice is, will the foundation outlive me? I have asked a friend that is a GC for an opinion on the structural viability of it all.

Man I just can't really afford to go into debt now at this age.

Joeaksa, you're a considerate man. But I was able to shake off the chair (praise the heavens)and now just live with a minor handicap. As a result I no longer qualify for the gov't help.If I had taken advantage of it all when I WAS still chair bound all this would have been done.But the same pride and determination that got me out of the chair prevented me from accepting the program aid.

Joeaksa · 04-24-2007, 02:10 PM

FB,

You should get a plan worked out and the materials together. Then supply all the beer and invite a load of Pelicans over for the weekend. Bet that there are a few guys in the area who would donate a day or so to help a Pelican who is about ready to retire and needs some help.

How about it guys?

Joe