Time is running out for us

[billyboy]

How Long Do We Have?



This is interesting. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming. I have

always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see

it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.



About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution

in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of

Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some

2,000 years earlier:


"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a

permanent form of government."


"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover

they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."


"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who

promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that

every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is

always followed by a dictatorship."


"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of

history, has been about 200 years."


"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the

following sequence:


1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage"


Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul,

Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000

Presidential election:


Number of States won by:

Gore: 19

Bush: 29


Square miles of land won by:

Gore: 580,000

Bush: 2,427,000


Population of counties won by:

Gore: 127 million

Bush: 143 million


Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:

Gore: 13.2

Bush: 2.1


Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was

mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.


Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in

government-owned tenements and living off various forms of

government welfare..."



Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the

"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy,

with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached

the "governmental dependency" phase.



If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal

invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA

in fewer than five years.

[fingpilot]

Sounds about right.

It has already started in SoCal.

[Jim727]

I agree that the amnesty idea is idiotic and self-destructive; however:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

[nostatic]

Originally posted by billyboy



Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.

Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Should call him Professor Hyperbole or maybe Dr. Ultraspin. Quite an inane extrapolation of the data, but hey, never let sound analysis get in the way of a juicy soundbyte...

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Jim727
I agree that the amnesty idea is idiotic and self-destructive; however:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

gee, you mean it wasn't TRUE?!?!?

pesky interwebs...

[Jim Richards]

Truth is irrelevant.

[rouxroux]

fence, minefields.

[Hugh R]

I'd say we're somewhere between #6 and #7

from complacency to apathy;

from apathy to dependence;

Few seem to care where the country is going, and more and more have their hands out.

[on2wheels52]

So the murder rates were off. Are we saying the rest of the Bush/Gore numbers are nominally correct?
Jim

[tabs]

Your email was forwarded to Charlie.



Charlie Rose Viewer Services

www.charlierose.com





Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 2:42 PM
To: charlierose@pbs.org
Subject: The Irony of Al Gore



I have long held a minority opinion that Al Gore himself struck a nail in the coffin of American Democracy, with his challenge to the outcome of the Presidential Election election in Florida in 2000.. Simply put for 200 years everybody knew that American elections were not perfect, everybody excepted that as being part of the Rules of the Road (Nixon not contesting the vote in Chicago 1960). Now comes Al Gore with a very close election which by the Rules as flawed as they maybe, he lost (even after the first recount). Instead of gracfull accepting his defeat, he then challeged the Rules of the Road after the fact. This was the first time in American History that someone had challeged the very process of Voting itself. What is paticularily damaging about that, is now the PROCESS of voting itself is called into question. Kerry veery wisely decided not to pursue that course of action with the Ohio vote in 2004. You might say American Democracy can weather this kind of challege to the process of voting once, but three times and American Democracy is out.

[ronin]

Originally posted by on2wheels52
So the murder rates were off. Are we saying the rest of the Bush/Gore numbers are nominally correct?
Jim

however, the ones and zeros still go in the same columns

[jyl]

What a stupid analysis. Why don't you add up the economic output of the counties won by Bush vs Gore. You'll find the "Gore" states are basically carrying the country.

Originally posted by billyboy
How Long Do We Have?



This is interesting. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming. I have

always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see

it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.



About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution

in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of

Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some

2,000 years earlier:


"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a

permanent form of government."


"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover

they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."


"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who

promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that

every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is

always followed by a dictatorship."


"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of

history, has been about 200 years."


"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the

following sequence:


1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage"


Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul,

Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000

Presidential election:


Number of States won by:

Gore: 19

Bush: 29


Square miles of land won by:

Gore: 580,000

Bush: 2,427,000


Population of counties won by:

Gore: 127 million

Bush: 143 million


Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:

Gore: 13.2

Bush: 2.1


Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was

mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.


Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in

government-owned tenements and living off various forms of

government welfare..."



Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the

"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy,

with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached

the "governmental dependency" phase.



If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal

invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA

in fewer than five years.

[IROC]

Originally posted by billyboy
Square miles of land won by:

Gore: 580,000

Bush: 2,427,000

I didn't realize that land could vote. Wow, things have gotten bad.

[billyboy]

What a stupid analysis. Why don't you add up the economic output of the counties won by Bush vs Gore. You'll find the "Gore" states are basically carrying the country

OK, you guys shot it all down with various arguments, I'm wrong. Things are just going to be great with the utopia that the neocons and liberals are ushering in. Why stop at the borders, let[s just unlock and open the doors to our houses and say welcome to one and all. Ecomonic output, that's funny, you mean service industry and government. Sounds like you're fiddling while Rome burns.

[Jim Richards]

Your basic question about the decline of our country due to factors such as complacency, apathy and dependence makes for an interesting discussion topic. It's just that the argument you copied and pasted here is dumb. Don't try so hard next time.

[thrown_hammer]

I think there were more Killer Bees in the states that voted for Bush, but more really smart scientists in the states that voted for Gore.

[Joeaksa]

Interesting thing is that all of the people saying that the above post that started this thread is not valid, not one of them has said that the data posted is false, fake or absolutely wrong.

Hmmm... otherwise agree with Hugh...

[Jim Richards]

Shawn nailed it once again.

[kaisen]

Olson is from Hamline Law, not Hemline. Great law school, but this guy has weird thoughts.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I didn't see anything about Pirates in the data.