Well I grant you that there are two and possibly three countries on that list (ahead of the USA) where I would not want fall seriously ill. But by and large I suspect there is some merit to the list - and I think the relevant question is not "where would you go for a major medical procedure?", but rather "where is the best possible general level of health care available to every last citizen at a reasonable cost?"

Ask that question and the list begins to make some sense.

I agree with that, however what that list also doesn't say is how many of those countries are going broke with their systems? I still say that our system in the best in the world, albeit not perfect..

Your system is the very best in the world. No question about that. But only for those that can afford it.

In my view however a good healthcare system must provide universal access to good healthcare. To the extent that it doesn't provide such universal access - it fails, and that is what I think the list reflects.

The WHO report is last dated 2000 so it's not real current. However, there's a link on the site that lists the many criteria they used to create the rankings. On Columbia, they noted:

"Colombia achieved top rank because someone with a low income might pay the equivalent of one dollar per year for health care, while a high- income individual pays 7.6 dollars."

Interpret that as you will without anyone claiming Columbia is "better" than the U.S.

Sherwood

too bad...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds

There in lies your mis-understanding of our system.. Our poor have health cars, it's called Medicaid.. and by law NO hospital can deny care to anyone.. It's our middle class that is getting nailed.. That's half the problem with all of our illegal immigrants, overloading the system because they get free health care..
That's the ugly truth of our system.. the BBC and CNN don't want you to know that...

Sorry but do not agree. There used to be documentaries that told the truth. We do not have them these days because the majority of the media these days are trying to push their liberal views.

Yes, every image has a POV but a good director and writer can make the film truthful and not biased if they choose. Problem is that they are choosing to do otherwise in the recent history.

There is a difference between skewing via a POV (sometimes without even knowing it) and using smoke and mirrors to paint a picture that would otherwise not exist. Moore goes that extra mile, he fabricates through insinuation.

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Well, I think I can offer a unique perspective on this. My father passed away last year after a long illness, and my mother is doing very poorly and "in the system" now. I also just saw "Sicko" a few days ago.

Let me dispell the first myth circulating around here, that Medicare or Medicaid is anything but beurocratic worthlessness. If you can jump through the hoops you need to to claim those Medicare benefits, or even QUALIFY for medicaid, the health care you get is bare, bare minimum to survive. Trust me on this one...I've been dealing with red tape for almost 2 solid years. Insurance companies deny everything they can get away with, and medicare/medicaid doesn't fill in the blank properly. So, you're stuck with sub-par care for your loved ones EVEN IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY HERE. You assume that, if you have "good" coverage, you are all set. Not the case, unfortunately. They will deny you when they can. They will prescribe medicine you don't necessarily need when they can. They will throw meds at you when they need to figure out WHY you are sick when they can. The "socialized" meds in other countries (Canada, UK, France) are more adept at SOLVING the illness, and using preventative care to maintain your health.

The system is very, very broken, and the movie just gives you the highlights. Certainly gets you thinking. Say what you want about MM...our healthcare industry blows.

Well, sorry Joe, but you're just flat out wrong. In the past evidently they made films not biased *to you* but they were biased to someone else. It is not possible to make a film without bias. Much of the "documentaries" of the WW2 era bordered (stomped on) the realm of propaganda. They were made to garner and increase support at home and abroad. Hitler had his own version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leni_Riefenstahl

Like I said, it is a sliding scale. Some "documentaries" border on ludicrous. Other are much more even, but they still have bias. Truth is in the eye of the viewer, not the lense of the camera.

Good post, and entirely consistent with much that I have heard and seen.

I read somewhere recently (and I think I previously posted a link to the article) that the single largest cause of personal bankruptcies in the US is the inability to pay medical bills. That is just plain wrong.

I am amazed how many people on this board seem to be convinced the US health care system is the best in the world. I said this before above, but there is something very wrong with a health care system where there is not universal access to a good standard of care.

And this gets me back to MM. I haven't seen the film yet - but will shortly. However even not having seen it, and regardless of the guy's motives or politics, I commend him for bringing issues such as this to a broader public who might otherwise never think about them or discuss them.

Like Gore's film, this one will hopefully start a broader debate on an important subject, and that is always a good thing in an open society.

To say the US has the "Best Healthcare System" in the world is just plain wrong. We have the *technology*, and the willingness. Europe (and Canada) has more liberal views of experimental medical coverage than we do. Thats why, when a Johns Hopkins scientist has a medical science breakthrough, they publish their paper, then immediately pass on the research to friends in Europe so that REAL progress can be made. We are being strangled by legalities, corrupt health insurance companies, and very, very greedy medical technology companies. It's just the way it is, and it's not refutable. Sorry folks....

Keep in mind I didn't write the cartoon so there must be "crowds" of people who question Wikipedia's veracity. In fact, they recently changed their policy about submissions because they recognized that some of the info was bogus.
I'm sure there are many knowledgeable writers and a lot of good information in there but, if the accuracy is suspect, then how do I know if the info is bogus or not? If I already "know" whether it is right then I don't need the resource.
Wikipedia is a great resource if you are looking for something that looks official that will back up your beliefs. So will a thousand other websites have similar results for me to verify contrary opinions.
p.s. I find it humorous that you use Wikipedia to defend Wikipedia.

a) the humor was intentional (I was going to link to the Amazon page for the book but thought the irony was funnier)

b) the point is the gist of the book.

Wikipedia has issues, but it also has more review than any other publication ever. There are plenty of inaccuracies, but most get caught and fixed by "the crowd."

It is an amazing resource. Not perfect, but nothing is. I'd take it over Britannica any day of the week however.

Well, you are part right, but it is the fear of getting sued (thank you liberal trail lawyers)that makes them pass the info to Europe.

Great film maker, great film.

That's great. Start "liberal" bashing now. The healthcare system doesn't care whether you vote left or right, silly fellow. It has nothing to do with "liberal trail (sic) lawyers". It has everything to do with the loads of red tape everyone has to go through...doctors and patients alike. Lets try, for once, to have a discussion without some flag-waving, liberal-bashing nonsense that every one of these things usually evolves (or devolves, as the case may be) into.

Please though....see the movie before you comment on it. Maybe it will open your eyes to a thing or two. It will make you laugh and cry, minutes apart.