secular as in banging our girlfriends/fiancees before marriage?

the "national pledge" (ie Pledge of Allegiance) was written in 1892 by a socialist Baptist minister to help sell children's magazines. And, "under God" was added by Eisenhower in 1954. I'm sure the founding fathers would be happy about that...

yeah, well, that's not what i asked.
is it Constitutional?

are those words in the Constitition, are they covered under the 1st Amendment, which is waaaaay older then 1954...the time those words were added??

FYI, I am a conservative.

Why make assumptions and judgments about me and my lifestyle? I don't believe I have ever met you.

Some time spent reading and understanding the actual writings of the Founders of this Country will be helpful and especially germane on this auspicious day. You might revisit the Bible as well.

Best,

Kurt

Edit: It appears, based solely on what you have posted here, that my beliefs more closely follow those of Thomas Jefferson. One of the major points of this experiment we call America is freedom of and from religion.

Perhaps you would prefer a theocracy? The U.S.A. is not on that list - check the countries that are then get back to us.

I'd be an atheist but there is too much reading required to keep up your part in an argument, so I'm agnostic. Just lazy, that's always been my problem. :cool:

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

The under God part wasn't added until '54...

this is a good one

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=319&page=624

U.S. Supreme Court
WEST VIRGINIA STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION v. BARNETTE, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

pretty much says the Pledge has nothing on the 1st Amendment....

and written by a minister that was run out of his Baptist church because of his socialist leanings

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

Be careful with your arguments kids...might help to know a little history ;)

Brilliant. To bad that's not how our national anthem was originally written. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Last I checked it was a Christian movement that pushed and was finally successful in getting Eisenhower to spearhead the change. You'd be offended if any Pagan deity were mentioned instead I bet.

Not that I care either way but if what you say is true. According to Sean Hannity/ Rush Limbaugh theres not going to be room for you in the Republican party. You need to switch parties maybe Libertarian would better suit you. Really what kind of conservative is faithless?

This always gives me a chuckle.

How many of you athiests celebrate Christs birthday, you know the holiday called Christmas?


I am amazed how many who despise religion celebrate its holidays.

ohhh ohhh! I know, I know:

one with free will and the ability to actually think for themselves?

what do I win?!? SmileWavy


note: the above does not mean that free will and thinking for one's self necessarily leads to agnosticism or atheism. Either way is fine. Please take as directed by a physician. May cause side effects such as dizziness and palpitations. Please consult a psychic if complications persist. Void where prohibited

Don't confuse "Republican" with "Conservative".

You do seem to care who is liberal and who is conservative (or whatever language you use) - you certainly bring it up often.

You also stated clearly that you believe that if one does not believe in your god, they probably lack a moral lifestyle.

If I have misunderstood your writings, please let me know.

Kurt

What gives me the chuckle is the majority of the religious not having a clue that the holiday they are celebrating (Christmas) was created to encorporate those that were already celebrating the winter solstice (Pagans). Christ's birthday I believe is not the 25th of Dec. And you might want to learn what you are actually doing when you burn the Yule log.

It's an old pagan holiday. I celebrate it, as does my daughter and my family. Always have. And, I don't despise religion or its followers.

JC was most likely not even born on December 25 - an old Pope many years ago (354AD or so) declared 12/25 as the birthday . . . to coincide with the big pagan ritual day.

FWIW.

Best,

Kurt

A Festivus for the rest of us.

Who will start with the airing of grievances?

Not too many people I am aware of really think too much about the origins of the holiday. I thought it was the winter solistice actually. (I read that Christ was actually born in March).

It's just an excuse for a celebration. I wouldn't see too much irony there - any more than I would in Christians celebrating Halloween.

So I shouldn't be taking my car to John Walker?

Wow. What a troll we have in Tony. I chalk that up to being young and inexperienced in the worl.d. Wasn't this the same guy that was posting half naked photos of his g/f to see if we approved? :rolleyes:

While not an anthiest, certainly in my world there's room for almost all theologies. Certainly not all aspects of my faith/religeon I blindly agree with. To do so would be silly.

Libs/atheists no difference.

so is it Christian to bang a woman before marriage?