I'll be really interested when the bottom line means less money. I think that's how things like hybrid cars, solar cells and wind power will really catch on and become commonplace.

I care about the environment, but like most folks will be happy to buy alternative energy products when it's simply cheaper than the alternatives.

Although, I would spend more initially to get alternative based power to my home just to reduce my monthly electric bills. If it happens to help the environment too, then that's just fine. All of the early adopters, liberal or conservative, just help the whole process along . . .

Best,

Kurt

P.S.: I am just as annoyed as the next guy about the hypocritical environmentalists who zip about in their jets and tell "us" to reduce our "carbon footprint".

A Prius battery weighs 48 pounds. Since it costs a couple thousand bucks to ship a fully loaded 40 foot container trans-Pacific via container ship, and the weight limit for a 40 foot container is about 27,000 kilos, the incremental cost of shipping 48 pounds is roughly $2.

We could go on and translate that into bunker fuel, but I don't really want your smelly left nut :-)

The Prius sells in L.A. for a little more than $20K. That's one of the cheapest economic cars around here, of quality, that is. The only other less expensive, more conventional car I'd trust is a Yaris. They're built by Toyota as well, IIRC.

So all Conservative Christians should drive Priuses?

:confused: A Miata isn't a chick car? :confused:

Ahhhhhhhhhh Mennnnnnnnnn :D

In the Toyota line, a Prius is similar to a Camry in available equipment/conveniences (leather, power, GPS nav, traction/stability control, etc etc), a little smaller exterior but carries about the same (due to the hatchback). The non-hybrid Camry MSRP ranges from $19K base to $28K fully loaded w/ V6. Said Camry gets about 24 MPG in the city and about 33 MPG highway (V6 models are about 2 MPG worse). The Prius MSRP is about $22K base to about $30K fully loaded. And the Prius gets 40 to 45 MPG in the city and 50 to 55 MPG highway (my experience in summer weather, some people manage to get more). So, if you can justify buying a Camry, you can justify buying a Prius. Assuming 12K miles/yr, half city and half highway, and $3.50 gas, the MPG difference will sum to about $2,800 over 5 years. Which is about the same as the MSRP difference. Assuming more city driving, or higher gas prices, or more miles driven, the savings will be higher.

Like it or not, it is what it is: For the most part the Prius is driven by ostensible liberals, and yes as painful as is must be, the Miata IS MOST DEFINITELY a chick car.

Well, the locals get kind of *****y when I drive the Porsche. I've come back to my car to find snippy notes on it like "this is loading zone not rich people zone". Well, I guess they're grumpy that Californians are getting hired for all the jobs. Oddly enough, no-one snipes about the Range Rover. There are certainly more Priuses here than you can shake a stick at. But, as explained, the car made good sense economically, so I don't much care what anyone thinks. Interestingly, I am about to buy a 1984 Vespa that will pollute more in 1 week than the Prius (or the Porsche for that matter) pollutes in a year. Oh, the guilt :-)

what about a VW TDI ?? they get better gas milage and with a little ingenuity ,, you can make your own fuel from used resturant oil.... that's the car I'm thinking I'll get..

Perhaps; just as many on the outside of the Porsche world view Porsche drivers as those who may be trying to compensate for "short"comings. :) The stereotypes cut in all directions.

Best,

Kurt

I've seen many a Prius and to compare it to a Camry is silly. I imagine Toyota agrees which is why they make a Camry hybrid as well.

Sorry Kstarnes, I have to disagree with that stereotype, as most of the people on this forum drive 20+ year old hot rod Porsches. Hardley ostentatious.

Merely seeing a Prius from the outside doesn't make you particularly knowledgeable.

Compare Camry to Prius in passenger capacity (number of people, cubic feet), in cargo capacity (cubic feet). You'll find one is 5 people, 96 cu ft, and 16 cu ft, the other is 5 people, 101 cu ft, 11 cu ft. Compare in available options. You'll find both have available full power, full leather, high-end audio, GPS nav, etc, all mod cons as they say.

I own a Prius and have rented, driven, and ridden in many a Camry. They are comparable in their carrying ability and level of goodies.

Certainly there is a marketing difference, hence Toyota saw profits in offering a hybrid Camry in addition to the Prius. Well, that's marketing. Back in the day, GM saw fit to sell the Camaro and the Trans-Am, but that didn't mean it was silly to compare the two . . .

I think VW TDIs are great cars. My friend routinely got 50 MPG with his. What pushed me to the Prius was that after suffering the "reliability" of European cars, I wanted at least one car in the family to be a Toyota. Not wanting to look for a diesel pump was a secondary reason. I have to admit I have no interest in mooching used french fry oil and doing the whole bio-diesel thing.

Of course the stereotype doesn't apply to your Porsche! :rolleyes:

edit: I think you will find a good number of folks who would consider almost any Porsche an unnecessary expense for a car. Tell a man on the street a super clean '86 Carrera was $20k and that person will likely be surprised.

My point is that once you start making judgments about what others drive you open yourself up to the same judgments against you. Wouldn't you agree, or is your glass house impervious to attack?

Kurt

I'm similar. Given the same cost to me, I'll usually choose the more "environmental" alternative. I'm even willing to pay a small premium, in part because I expect energy prices to trend up over time. But I'm not willing to pay a lot to "feel green". For example, I've been very interested in home solar systems for over a decade - but it has to make economic sense before I'm installing one. On the other hand, CFL light bulbs have gotten cheap enough that I've put them in most rooms of the house.

I did the CFLs too in all but a few cans where I use halogen spots that look nice if I have company ever. When it's just me and my daughter, we only burn the CFLs. BION, I cut my electric bill in half after the switch . . . seriously! BTW, we heat water on propane.

Best,

Kurt

Somebodys getting a little defensive. Mabey they bought a prius and feel offended by my innocuous statements.

If there is one good thing about high gas prices is that it forces the market to look for alternate green/sources of energy.

Market forces are better in changing sustainable consumer behavior than any government, liberal or not.

Well, I drive a gas guzzling 2000 Expedition with a V8 Triton and get perturbed when certain types get pissy about me using my truck to pick up a loaf of bread by myself.

Not defensive, just think that folks should mind their own business about what other people drive and how other people use their cars, that's all.

I also find it humorous when Porsche drivers make fun of the car choices others make.

That make any sense to you?

Best,

Kurt