Defiant teenager living at home

[dennis in se pa]

I have a 19 year old son who just graduated this year. He only works part time. His behavior is unacceptable. Last night I found he had snuck out around midnight. Must have crawled out an upstairs window, AGAIN! I am sure we all did this sort of thing once or twice when we lived at home, but this is the norm with him. He owes me and my sister thousands (helped him get a car) but does not get a job because he wants to take the summer off, and thinks that is acceptable.
I constantly find him lying and he is more deceptive than truthful in general.
If you tell him to do something you can count on it only being half done.
He had behavioral issues all through school.
I am interested in hearing what action board members think I should take to correct this situation.
Throw him out?
Ground him on the first floor?
Sell his car?
Your idea here..
My wife thinks I am too hard on him, which is part of the problem.

[Joeaksa]

Being lax on him is part of the problem.

Set ground rules and go over them with him with your wife sitting by your side. Tell him "third time and you are out" then give him a copy of the rules.

Then let him break them twice. Third time toss his assets out. Its the only way he is going to learn, otherwise he feels that its ok to "sponge" off of people.

A good thing for this kid is 4 years in the military. They go in a kid, come out a man.

[Oh Haha]

+1 to Joe's suggestion.

I would also suggest that you speak to your wife and maybe check into some outside help in dealing with the conflicting ideas on discipline.

He is an adult now and while enjoying life is great, he should respect the rules. "My house, my rules."

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by dennis in se pa

He had behavioral issues all through school.
I

does he have bouncing breasts on his on-line avatars?

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by on-ramp
does he have bouncing breasts on his on-line avatars?

Sure got your attention didn't it?

[pmajka]

Take what i say with a grain of salt...lord knows, I wouldn't want to get sued for giving free advice.

It is not uncommon for parents to rear their children into their 20's if they are still living at home. "My house, My rules!" comes to mind. What you have now is a lack of respect from you son. Your options are either :
1. Treat him like a child
2. Treat him like an adult

You need to decide if he is capable of being treated like an adult and reciprocating mutual respect. Talk with him and work out an agreement. Maybe let him have a month off, find out what his plans are. Start helping him with a life plan, draw up an agreeable contract, with penalties and stick with it. If he wants to be an adult, time to act like one. (doesnt mean he cant have fun)

On the other hand if he is not mature enough, take the car keys. NO job, no gas money, no insurance money, NO CAR!
And i am not talking for one night.....Get the Warden hat on and be a responsible parent. This will probably wont get you peaches and cream in the household in the short term, but could very well be the saving factor (in his life) in the long run.

On a personal note, my folks started option 2 when i was 16, Groundings lasted for a month, (not a night or 3 days). I hated what my parents did to me, strict Wardens that they were, and i wasnt a bad kid. (small things, not stupid things, like not weeding the garden or handling other chores). I realized later in life (my early 20s) that i wasnt a bad kid cause they (my folks) DRILLED respect of my self and others at an early age. I always had a job since 16, crappy hours, lousy pay (except delivering pizza). On the other hand, I had a car, gas money, covered my share if insurance, a lady or 2 on the line when I had time for a date, but most of all, I had RESPECT. Respect of my parents and friends and mostly for my self.

My life didnt turn out to be peaches and cream, but when i fought with mom and dad, i still had Iron Clad respect, not just some chip on my shoulder.

I dont know you, your life or wife, but you got to get her on board.

Looks like you have some work ahead of you too.

[rouxroux]

Time for the bird to fly free. I suggest military enlistment. If not that, a full-time job and get his own place pronto.

[charleskieffner]

wow right up my alley on this one.

divorced from prozac drunk wife 9 years ago.

2 boys now 21 and 18.

had joint custody.

went to work where i am at , at pay cut, instead of traveling all over hell and making the "BIG BUCKS" for the kids. knew house would be cinders after 2 week road trips.

older one lived with me full time. younger one had "carrot game played on him by ex. lived w/her. mom i want a bike.....3 show up. if i dont get doggie i will move in w/dad.........dog shows up. and on and on. you get the picture.

older one had to do chores(1 1/2 acres and pool) and maintain job while going to school. i paid room and board and he paid only $218 to me for insurance.

sweat equity restoration on '86 chev stepside 4 x4. new mtr tranny/paint/ interior/air con/name it it was replaced and cherry.

wrecks truck twice playing off road ricky racer. one went on my insurance to get back on road.

hammer starts coming down by me.

countless stupid shi! w/cops. riding dirt bike on sidewalk/fights in school/poor grades/speeding tickets etc. went to all court hearings w/him.

next 6 of them steal front end loader, to build dirt bike track in dez. fuch up caterpillar loader and each are required to pay $2000 bucks for repairs. i sell his built to the hilt KX-125 that was scary fast, to pay fine. placed on probation.

friends come over steal my tools and dirt bike parts. steal ammo out of garage and camp food and god knows what else.

comes up dirty on piss test while on probation for coke. sentenced to 21 days juvenile jail. on that one i kicked him out.

gets out moves in w/mom.

while all this is going on, i'm maybe taking off 12 days a year to go to baja. other than that im 8 minutes away at work. and home every night, not hanging in bars.

he gets kicked out of public h.s. for fighting . enrolled in charter school. i become best of friends w/charter school principal. now i start really riding his ass. room clean homework done chores done and maintain job. take my name off of truck and he now has to pay insurance himself.

gets job at boulders 5 star resort. gets turned on to heroin by illegal hispanics. this is roughly when we suspect it from kids he was hanging with.

gets busted for tail light and poss. of heroin for sale. mom hires lawyer and gets off w/wrongful search??????? WTF?

rolls truck multiple times w/ girl friend playing ricky racer again. truck totaled they are ok. lied to me about having seat belts on. 2am i get call from hospital. its always 2am-3am!

goes out one night w/friends, they steal set hi-buck golf clubs. one problem while going thru bmw in garage there is a really drunk chick in car! she screams, boyfriend gives chase and gets plate. my son arrested for burglary. i kick him out again for lying that clubs were not at my home. they were in back building.

sentenced 30 days jail. gets out on probation. goes to rehab. is clean

friend of his dies from overdose black tar heroin.

chris gets job at checker auto. everything seems ok. mom buys him lil mazda truck.

months go by. i had long talk w/him about what adult probabtion is all about.

POS friend of his comes back from 50k rehab. comes back and gets the original group strung out again.


younger son has many items stolen. ex in complete denial. total trainwreck w/ex still drinking drugging everyday. older one ripping her off also. starts stealing from checker and gets fired.

blows mazda motor up and POS coke whore g/friend is driving him around. hes 21 now and not a hell of alot i can take away or do about this crap.


younger is fed up w/crap at moms house. moves back in w/me.
same drill NO 3 strike rule this time.

tells me chris is using again.

tells me chris stole some guns and case ammo. another parent calls me about ammo showing up at house.

i get drunk as a goat, beat the living hell outta my drumset. floor littered w/broken sticks/broken heads.............and get up the next morning and turn his ass into cops!

here were my choices and anyone dealing w/drug/booze addiction....

choices
1) rehab.....he did it and didnt work.

2) funeral

3)jail/prison

do the ******* math.............i picked number 3!

i was given no choice. hes alive..........hes clean, and he was just sentenced to 3 1/2 years w/ az. state dept of corrections.

i was strict/ i took no crap/ my house is military spotless as well as my property. he had chores school job to maintain. punishments included grounding, vehicle grounded, bikes locked up, no cash handed to him unless earned.

this wasnt heaven by any stretch. if he wanted something he had to earn it himself. no handouts by me.

yes the typical xmas gifts, but other than that it was tow the line or else!

never beat him, nor even took a swing on him. believe me thought crossed my mind a few times.

soo........tell me where the hell i went wrong? having tough time w/this every damn day. but in my heart i know i did right. hes alive and not in some closet dead w/puke all over him and a needle stuck in his arm like his friend.

my thoughts..........get the hell out or get a job! everyone has a rock bottom. when he figures it out.........he will tow the line. problem is.......everyones rock bottom is different. evidenced by my son.

embarrassing? you bet. hurtful? like words cant describe. am i scared? like nothing else. the future? noone has a crystal ball.

its not the end of the world for him. it seems like it to me some days. but its not a capital crime and he can get his record expunged. all that takes is bucks.

will he come out clean? who knows??? will he change his lifestyle? who knows???

remember this.........you were a great parent if you got them to 21 ALIVE! i barely made that one by the skin of my A$$!


whats different from my upbringing? not much. dad was ex military. i was more scared of him than the cops. mine when confronted w/punishment by me would just split to ex's house.

would i change anything i did??? not really. i literally took everything that mattered to him away for punishment. still pulled crap.

all my friends have stated i did nothing wrong and he earned it all himself. and he did!

you cannot place them in a bubble. you teach them wrong from right. THEY make the decisions wrong or right. hopefully they learn from mistakes.

will i visit him ? not this year. i want him to hit his rock bottom like he has never experienced in his life.

this one aged me. LIKE ALOT! typical where did i go wrong? i had curfews, ex didnt. i had rules... ex didnt. i had goals........ex didnt. i made them do homework.......ex didnt.

really dont know what else to say this fine sunday except im getting into p-car and go air inject myself and clear my head of this crap for a few moments.

if you cant tell.......i have a real FUCHED UP ATTITUDE TOWARDS SUBSTANCE ABUSE!

dont let anyone ever tell you that pot use cant possibly lead to harder drugs. because my older son blew that myth to hell. im not saying everyone..............but in my sons case it did lead to harder drugs and the ensuent crimes involved.

this aint white trash talking here. i live in the third richest zip code in the state. im a native. i have alot of connections. and believe me i called everyone on this one. cops everywhere up here trying to catch illegals dealing this heroin crap. and they did catch quite a few.

let your kid read this..........maybe he will open his eyes. maybe he wont. its on his shoulders now to figure out how to lead a positive productive lifestyle which will benefit him in the future.

good luck w/this. if i had to do it again.........i'd be stricter and more of an *********!

i lost one of my 2 best friends on the planet. the other is about 15 ft away sleeping right now. hes 18........and he will help see me thru this nightmare!

[gchappel]

IMHO you are in for a long, bad time.
First you and your wife need to get on the same page. Kids are geniuses at playing the parents off one another and redirecting the problem to the parent. Sit down with your wife- when the little angel is not around- and come to some compromise you both can live with - and stick to it. The main issue is to support each others decisions. If one makes a decision in the heat of the moment- the other needs to FULLY support it, no matter what it was. If you have different opinions work it out in private- present a united front.
The biggest problem I see is the statement "He had behavioral issues all through school." Why was nothing done then? You can't uncook a turkey. These problems obviously should have been handled at a much earlier age. He has learned that his attitude and lifestyle is ok and you have accepted it in the past- much harder to change now. You may well need outside help.
Raising a child is hard work, and you have a hard time in front of you. It is worth it.
Gary

[bigchillcar]

+1 on getting on the same page with your wife, regardless of the route you choose. if kids see a divide between the parents, they'll work to wedge it even further open. also agree that a choice has to be made to continue to parent as a kid or treat as an adult..you can't do both with a 19-year old - he already 'thinks' he's a man regardless because he figures 'i'm 19-years old'. i'd quit supporting the car..he'll figure out in a hurry that he needs at least part-time employment to insure it (you don't let him drive it if he don't cover it) and there's no $$ for gas. he's 19, but i bet he ain't stupid. everyone's gotta do their part..and 19's too old to be cared for like he's still 14. he doesn't like? he can find a roommate..and see how long they tolerate someone who doesn't pay their share. suddenly dad wasn't 'so stupid' after all..

[pwd72s]

Man, you have my sympathy...No advice, since I had a daughter, but sympathy.

BTW, at 19...legally an adult. You have no legal obligation to provide anything.

[sammyg2]

I'd say to stop letting him get away with that behavior but it may be too late for that.
He needs to grow up or fail. It's time.
Throw him out and see which direction he goes. If he makes a real effort to take responsibility, then you can try to help again. If he doesn't, Wash your hands of him or you will end up supporting him and cleaning up his messes and mistakes for the rest of your life.

[sammyg2]

I'd say to stop letting him get away with that behavior. but it may be too late for that.
He needs to grow up or fail. It's time.
Throw him out and see which direction he goes. If he makes a real effort to take responsibility, then you can try to help again. If he doesn't. Wash your hands of him or you will end up supporting him and cleaning up his messes and mistakes for the rest of your life.

[tabs]

Originally posted by dennis in se pa

I constantly find him lying and he is more deceptive than truthful in general.
.

How in the he11 did it come down to this with your CHILD. Thats not a failure on his part but YOURS. Why does he need to lie to his Father?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

He's over 18. Therefore HE (not you) must sign up for the military. If he doesn't sign on the line, it means nothing. Any recruiter should be able to tell you that.

I'd boot his ass. Seriously. Stop being a doormat. I swear to God, if I ever had kids (and your story is one of the reasons I don't and the notion holds such little appeal to me), I'd make it 100% crystal clear that at age 17+363 days, they're still my kid and are afforded all the benefits of my protection and care. The instant they turn 18, they're on their own. That includes college, housing, expenses, etc. If they want to continue to live at home, they pay rent. Going rate.

I think that knowing what's coming all through the "teen years" would help them to be motivated to save, buckle down and make their plans. At least if they're smart. If they thought I was kidding, they'd be in for a rude surprise on their 18th birthday.

And I ain't kididng here. After putting up with their crap for 18 years, I'd be looking for my freedom back first chance I could get it - plus it would be ultimately best for them. "Tough love" is still love.

[tabs]

Maybe what is needed is a some self examination and soul searching about your own life and feelings. Then maybe a bit of sharing with your child, with your acknowledgement that your not happy with the way things are going with your relationship with him.

Then you hae to realize that at his age he is trying to find his own path determine what his values are. After he finds that path you might find that as an adult your child comes back and relates to you...that usually is around 25 to 30 years old.

Just just say your older and wiser than the kid, you have been around the block acoupla times and have experienced some knocks allong the way. Your job is to bring some clarity to his situation, ultimatily to teach him how to bring clarity to his own situation. So that he doesn't wind up fking up his life. Get it Dad.

[tabs]

Charles your son being in Prison isn't going to help. Hes going to come out worse than ever. He will wind up dead or back in prison.

Your failure was in not being able to bring clarity to the self destructive ways your wife exhibited. He loves his Mom and learned how to cope with the pain she leaves him in by imitating her destructive ways. That plus your own intransigence helped set the course he was on.

[tabs]

Originally posted by tabs
Charles your son being in Prison isn't going to help. Hes going to come out worse than ever. He will wind up dead or back in prison.

Your failure was in not being able to bring clarity to the self destructive ways your wife exhibited. He loves his Mom and learned how to cope with the pain she leaves him in by imitating her destructive ways. That plus your own intransigence helped set the course he was on.

Ohhh..and his current emotional state is one of chaos and confusion which which leaves him unstable emotionally. He has no clarity about a fking thing.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
19 years old is an adult, and many of his peers are already completed their sophmore year in college and are going to be a junior...

-Wayne

Agreed and by age 19 I was wearing a US Army uniform. Many of us were in the late 60's and early 70's and most ended up in Vietnam.

Back in that day and time many Judges were a bit smarter and not so much PC. When a kid got in trouble they were often told "its the military or jail, which do you want?" That needs to happen more often these days IMHO. Makes kids grow up and fast.

Before someone squawks, yes some of them might go to Afganistan or Iraq and some of them might get wounded or killed. Would rather see them wounded or killed in the service of their country than being shot in a street fight or with a needle in their arm in a crash house.

The world itself is not a safe place and no one is guaranteed anything other than death and taxes, so its time to make the most of it, not sit at home sponging on their parents. Lets hope that Dennis is able to get his wife working with him and get their son lined out and on the right track and moving ahead.

[JSDSKI]

my 2 cents ... he's misbehaving for your attention. He'd probably like your direct and personal attention when it doesn't involve his bad behavior or countless errors. He'd probably like a different and more positive relationship with you but doesn't know how to get it.

Try to reduce the tension between you, first. Tell him straight up that you need and want a different more mutually respectful relationship.
Explain that he doesn't have to sneak around. Explain, that after an agreed upon time period, (he graduated, let screw off for some of the summer) he's going to have to start paying for the privilege of the car. Accept that this will be a difficult transition but one that benefits both of you. Don't raise your voice. Don't threaten to toss him. Don't give him ultimatums, yet. Just start the conversation.

Find out what he's interested in and offer to help or experience it with him. Allow him to teach you something. Do not express your superior understanding and wisdom in all things at all times. Start treating him at least as with as much respect as you show your Porsche buddies - even if he acts like a dolt sometimes. We all do that.

I'd even talk to a therapist or counselor.